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Old 02-11-2015, 08:14 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,572,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by improb View Post
Why do you group Spain and Italy with Greece? While public debt is a concern, most of it is internal, Greece not only owes money to Germany but to the rest of Europe as well, that's often forgotten (They owe 60b to DEU, 46b to FRA, 40b to ITA and 26b to SPA)
Europe's taxpayers are mostly on the hook for Greece's debt. 86 percent of the debt is now owned by the ECB, the EU's Europe Financial Stabilization Facility, or the IMF.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:29 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,249,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
What a bizarro thread. Collapse of the EU, seriously? "It may collapse if Greece leaves." WTF??
I agree with you. I actually think the EU will eventually be stronger if Greece leaves.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:37 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,249,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
IS is a creation of the US and the Arab League to destabilize Iraq to bring back US military basing after the government of Iraq refused to extend the status of forces agreement. ISIS is just one of many rebel groups created by the US and its allies to get rid of Assad in Syria.
This is an example of how people can twist anything to suit any bizarre theory they have, no matter how unlikely or outlandish.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Minsk, Belarus
667 posts, read 940,505 times
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I don't think it's gonna collapse. But I definitely woudn't want it to eventually become one country. I would like individual member states to stay on the map as they are now.
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:20 AM
 
5,781 posts, read 11,873,729 times
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Default yes but

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmel View Post
I don't think it's gonna collapse. But I definitely woudn't want it to eventually become one country. I would like individual member states to stay on the map as they are now.
the eurofederalists have a lot of clout and make an intense lobbying in Brussels in order to coerce the 28 members states in further integration and expand the EU indefinitely outside even the geographical limits of Europe (there is talk of Ukraine, Turkey, even Morocco or Israel). These people are dangerous, crazy and filthy rich since they are financed by billionaires like Soros.
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:23 AM
 
Location: Minsk, Belarus
667 posts, read 940,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
the eurofederalists have a lot of clout and make an intense lobbying in Brussels in order to coerce the 28 members states in further integration and expand the EU indefinitely outside even the geographical limits of Europe (there is talk of Ukraine, Turkey, even Morocco or Israel). These people are dangerous, crazy and filthy rich since they are financed by billionaires like Soros.
Why do people like Soros even need the further integration?
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Old 02-12-2015, 04:49 AM
 
Location: Kennedy Heights, Ohio. USA
3,866 posts, read 3,144,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by improb View Post
Why do you group Spain and Italy with Greece? While public debt is a concern, most of it is internal, Greece not only owes money to Germany but to the rest of Europe as well, that's often forgotten (They owe 60b to DEU, 46b to FRA, 40b to ITA and 26b to SPA)
A more honest way of saying this is that Germany is on hook to provide $60 billion, France $46 billion, Italy $40 billion, Spain $26 billion to the ECB in the event of a capital call in the event Greece defaults. For Italy to come up with $40 billion even though it is continuing to run huge deficits ($75 billion this year alone) while it is borrowing heavily to pay the interest on its debt Italy would have to impose an toxic mix of spending cuts and tax increases. France and Spain are in no better condition. Even the Netherlands would be in trouble in the event of an capital call. This is why Germany is taking a firm line with Greece. Once Greece defaults there will be an EU-wide voter run on the parliaments because of the toxic mix of spending cuts and tax increases needed to come up with the money they are on hook to provide to the ECB. Voters won't be to happy when they are told they have to accept more austerity measures so private hedge funds and billionaire investors can recoup their losses. Germany would be stranded with its taxpayers holding the bag for $210 billion of Greece's $350 billion of debt owed to the Eurozone bailout mechanism if the other EU nations renege on their agreements to provide capital.

Last edited by Coseau; 02-12-2015 at 05:09 AM..
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:03 AM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kas982 View Post
The trouble with that line of thinking is, even after the Taliban, Isis, Libyian Islamists etc, the US is still pursuing the same foriegn policy. Both Bush & Obama are "hawks", the next president will do the same.
So "unintended consequences", hmm, doesn't hold up.

What choice do they have? It's try to use the force that is out there in order to fight Russian interests in the area, or accept the defeat. And this force is usually an Islamic one; there is no one else out there to fight the "moderate" governments of Muslim states.
The problem is, once you use these mentioned above forces, they get the life of their own. It's like letting genie out of a bottle.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:24 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,572,686 times
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War against Syria is about Russia and EU energy dependence. As with Libya and Ukraine where US regime change has occurred, Syria hosts a Russian naval base. Syria rejected a proposed gas pipeline that would bring gas from the PARS gas field in Qatar to the EU by way of a pipleine running through Saudi Arabia and Syria to the natural gas shipping hub in Ceyhan, Turkey.

If the other countries in the Eurozone are to bear the cost of a Greek debt default, the best alternative for the Greeks to exit since growth within the Eurozone will be stifled.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,808,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
War against Syria is about Russia and EU energy dependence. As with Libya and Ukraine where US regime change has occurred, Syria hosts a Russian naval base.
How long has the Syrian Civil War been going on? 4 years? I think it's safe to say at this point that the EU don't give a damn about Syria.

In fact, the EU doesn't give a damn about most countries in the world. Only people with tin foil hats think that the EU is some kind of expansionist NWO-masonic organisation.
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