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I disagree. People like the Brits only don't leave because they fear economic problems, not because they like the EU and want to be part of it. And that applies to many if not most countries.
That's a sensible line of thought then. They realise the UK would be economically advantaged if it left the EU, so the only rational option is to remain a member. Once people discover that Norway and Switzerland are essentially EU members in all but name (with open borders and everything), but are effectively locked out of the decision-making process (meaning laws are adopted without the consent of the public or any in-put whatsoever - hardly democratic), they realise that it's not such a smart idea for the UK to leave after all.
If all European countries agreed to return to something like the EEC, then fine, so be it, but until then, it's stupid for the UK to be on the outside looking in. Our voice in Europe has already been reduced because our current Prime Minister has isolated himself by acting like an idiot. It's better for us to be on the inside, influencing the way things run, and shaping the EU to our benefit, as Germany and France often do. Simple.
Unfortunately for Eurosceptics, much like Scottish nationalists, the alternative to being a member of the EU is economic uncertainty. At least the EU offers something familiar - leaving does not. So the EU will likely exist for many years to come, whether you like it or not.
Plus, I'm not sure about you, but economic security is more important to me than changing the clocks twice a year. Wouldn't you agree?
Last edited by dunno what to put here; 04-14-2015 at 03:18 AM..
@ dunno what to put here : the economy is not the end all and be all of everything. For me, culture, real democacy(close to the grass roots), the environment , the quality of life , the happiness index are more important. But to each his own, I guess.
Front Nationa, Lega nOrd the UKIP are perfectly democratic parties, or maybe do you want to prohibit them ... some special conception of democracy "Europhiles" you have.
Please point out where I state that Front National, Lega Nord the UKIP are not democratic parties?
Also, the Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is an international standard for time, and literally have nothing to do with the European Union.
Last edited by Rozenn; 04-14-2015 at 03:40 PM..
Reason: Rude
Really? It will prevent war? What is the basis for that claim? Such a claim sounds a lot like EU propaganda.
ÃŽ think there are other reasons why there has been no war in decades:
- the UN would not allow any new territory gained through war (see Israel)
- there would be sanctions against a country starting a war
- there simply is no reason for war because the time for imperialism is basically over
- hardly anyone is willing to sacrifice anything for such nationalist, barbaric endeavors, we have more important things to do such as surfing the Internet ^^
Also, I think what would be much more effective in that sense would be a common EU in terms of foreign politics and defense, while removing the current economic and political EU, which is considered a kind of imperialism through the back door by many people and which contradicts people's desire to have their own independent countries. After all, that is just a sophisticated version of the ancient animal territorial behavior, which is rooted deeply in our genes.
That's a sensible line of thought then. They realise the UK would be economically advantaged if it left the EU, so the only rational option is to remain a member. Once people discover that Norway and Switzerland are essentially EU members in all but name (with open borders and everything), but are effectively locked out of the decision-making process (meaning laws are adopted without the consent of the public or any in-put whatsoever - hardly democratic), they realise that it's not such a smart idea for the UK to leave after all.
If all European countries agreed to return to something like the EEC, then fine, so be it, but until then, it's stupid for the UK to be on the outside looking in. Our voice in Europe has already been reduced because our current Prime Minister has isolated himself by acting like an idiot. It's better for us to be on the inside, influencing the way things run, and shaping the EU to our benefit, as Germany and France often do. Simple.
Unfortunately for Eurosceptics, much like Scottish nationalists, the alternative to being a member of the EU is economic uncertainty. At least the EU offers something familiar - leaving does not. So the EU will likely exist for many years to come, whether you like it or not.
Plus, I'm not sure about you, but economic security is more important to me than changing the clocks twice a year. Wouldn't you agree?
I disagree there. It is like suggesting marrying someone for their money.
Switzerland has its own laws, which by the way are better than EU laws. Switzerland is a much more democratic unit than the EU.
Exactly, which is why I said it takes one big EU country to leave and do their own thing and others would follow. What you say there is exactly the problem: the big countries try to dominate the EU and the smaller ones have little to say. That is not what most people in the EU want. Even in the US, despite being much more homogeneous, people in smaller states hate being dominated by California and New York.
Changing the clocks?! Summer time has nothing to do with the EU. And economic security?! Why are half a dozen EU countries basically broke despite being in the EU for a long time? Even big ones like France and Italy are in deep trouble. There is no such security because the EU is innately flawed. Nobody in South America would suggest all SA countries with their huge differences form a union and give up any of their sovereignty to some centralized mega-bureaucracy.
There has been some quite direct fear-mongering by politicians, saying there is no alternative to the EU and the Euro. And anyone who doesn't agree with that elitist, anti-democratic project is labeled a dangerous extremist.
Some people seem to have that odd idea that just because we all happen to live on the continent called Europe, we are somehow all the same and have to form some sort of union. In reality big units are much more problematic. What applies to banks and companies applies to political units as well. Big units tend to become bullies and once they screw up, the consequences are much more severe.
ÃŽ think there are other reasons why there has been no war in decades:
- the UN would not allow any new territory gained through war (see Israel)
- there would be sanctions against a country starting a war
- there simply is no reason for war because the time for imperialism is basically over
- hardly anyone is willing to sacrifice anything for such nationalist, barbaric endeavors, we have more important things to do such as surfing the Internet ^^
Also, I think what would be much more effective in that sense would be a common EU in terms of foreign politics and defense, while removing the current economic and political EU, which is considered a kind of imperialism through the back door by many people and which contradicts people's desire to have their own independent countries. After all, that is just a sophisticated version of the ancient animal territorial behavior, which is rooted deeply in our genes.
It is almost anathema to say, but there has been no war in decades because the US plays the role of big brother. Western Europe has entered our most peaceful and prosperous era ever under their watch. Why screw that up? It has nothing to do with being more civilized than our grandparents. Europeans in the 19th century also believed they were more civilized, then they caused two world wars. 19th century Europe was actually relatively peaceful because the British maintained the balanxe of power. When Germany united and militarized the balance of power was broken and it led to major wars.
There has been some quite direct fear-mongering by politicians, saying there is no alternative to the EU and the Euro. And anyone who doesn't agree with that elitist, anti-democratic project is labeled a dangerous extremist.
Some people seem to have that odd idea that just because we all happen to live on the continent called Europe, we are somehow all the same and have to form some sort of union. In reality big units are much more problematic. What applies to banks and companies applies to political units as well. Big units tend to become bullies and once they screw up, the consequences are much more severe.
It is almost anathema to say, but there has been no war in decades because the US plays the role of big brother. Western Europe has entered our most peaceful and prosperous era ever under their watch. Why screw that up? It has nothing to do with being more civilized than our grandparents. Europeans in the 19th century also believed they were more civilized, then they caused two world wars. 19th century Europe was actually relatively peaceful because the British maintained the balanxe of power. When Germany united and militarized the balance of power was broken and it led to major wars.
I don't agree. Europe has mostly been peaceful throughout its history. In history lessens children are always taught those wars and battles, but hardly do they talk about all those long, boring periods of peace, it's like with flights, the only ones that make it to the news are incidents and accidents.
And why are there peaceful periods? Because there is simply no reason for war. And nobody will prevent a new war, should two European countries see a new reason to have one. But it simply won't happen for some time because of the reasons already stated. It will happen again of course in the more distant future...
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