Why are French cities tend to be small? (people, German, UK)

[botticelli]

I notice French cities tend to be rather small land-wise. For example, its largest cities all have relatively smaller area than in other countries.

(in sq km)
Paris: 105
Lyon: 48
Marseille: 240 (unusually large for French standard)
Toulouse: 118
Nice: 72
Nante: 65
Bordeaux: 49

In compared with

Rome 1285
Madrid: 606
Milan: 181
Berlin: 892
Munich: 310
Vienna: 395

N American cities are absolutely huge:
NYC 789
Los Angeles 1214
Chicago 606
Houston 1625
Toronto 630
Montreal 365

I know the administrative area of cities don't mean much however, I wonder why is that French cities are being defined on such small areas, which on surface make it appear that France don't have many big cities if you look like city population, as if outside Paris, France only has small towns, but when you are really walking in cities like Nice or Lyon, they don't feel small at all, far larger than American cities with bigger population on paper.

[Eden Morlevent]

Originally Posted by botticelli

I notice French cities tend to be rather small land-wise. For example, its largest cities all have relatively smaller area than in other countries.

(in sq km)
Paris: 105
Lyon: 48
Marseille: 240 (unusually large for French standard)
Toulouse: 118
Nice: 72
Nante: 65
Bordeaux: 49

In compared with

Rome 1285
Madrid: 606
Milan: 181
Berlin: 892
Munich: 310
Vienna: 395

N American cities are absolutely huge:
NYC 789
Los Angeles 1214
Chicago 606
Houston 1625
Toronto 630
Montreal 365

I know the administrative area of cities don't mean much however, I wonder why is that French cities are being defined on such small areas, which on surface make it appear that France don't have many big cities if you look like city population, as if outside Paris, France only has small towns, but when you are really walking in cities like Nice or Lyon, they don't feel small at all, far larger than American cities with bigger population on paper.

You sure about that ?

[NOLA101]

These are just administrative boundaries. Paris "feels" huge even if it has technically small city limits. It wouldn't "feel" any different if it annexed its suburbs.

I'm guessing France has small administrative boundaries because there isn't a trend towards consolidation. Canada, for example, is very pro-consolidation. Australia would be on the other extreme. The U.S. and Germany are kind of in the middle, depending on location.

[overdrive1979]

Originally Posted by botticelli

I notice French cities tend to be rather small land-wise. For example, its largest cities all have relatively smaller area than in other countries.

(in sq km)
Paris: 105
Lyon: 48
Marseille: 240 (unusually large for French standard)
Toulouse: 118
Nice: 72
Nante: 65
Bordeaux: 49

In compared with

Rome 1285
Madrid: 606
Milan: 181
Berlin: 892
Munich: 310
Vienna: 395

About 40% of Madrid area is made by urban parks like Casa de Campo, and protected natural parks like Monte del Pardo:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...dGeografia.png

[forgotten username]

There are about 36000 cities in France. The most populated one is Paris with about 2 million people, but some only have like 3 inhabitants.

Infact there is no consolidation, contrary to most countries around.

[Eden Morlevent]

Originally Posted by forgotten username

There are about 36000 cities in France. The most populated one is Paris with about 2 million people, but some only have like 3 inhabitants.

Infact there is no consolidation, contrary to most countries around.

I already said that somewhere, I wonder why people don't seem to read me.

[ryever]

That's a good question, I guess each small city has its own flavor in France, its own identity, so cities don't consolidate because it wouldn't feel right to combine cities just for the sake of it. Also you have to think of the politics behind it, mayors don't want their cities to merge with others. What has prevented Paris from expending more is the beltway (périphérique), it separates very clearly the city and its suburbs. Before that many small towns (like Montmartres) were integrated into Paris. Also the architecture is a clear marker. Greater Paris (Grand Paris) will be a new entity soon that will govern a big part of the Paris urban area, but no city will really merge, mayors will just loose some power that will be given to Greater Paris. Greater Paris will have a population of 6M if I remember correctly

[Marmel]

So the question should be: why don't French cities incorporate adjacent suburbs?

[Middlesbrough_84]

It's similar in the UK. Lot of cities are in.the region of 40 to 80 Sq miles in area but are part of a larger urban area so feel bigger. UK cities tend to be small in area but have larger populations by comparison
Look at Manchester, only about 45 Sq miles in terms of administrative area but has over 500,000 people. I don't tend to view cities sizes in terms of area but rather population.

[forgotten username]

Originally Posted by Marmel

So the question should be: why don't French cities incorporate adjacent suburbs?

I believe it's a cultural thing. People in France are very attached to their "commune", and therefore often see a consolidation as a loss of something they have. I think that might be a heritage of the French revolution and the system of communes, which was the symbol of the republic / state / everywhere.

There were consolidations in the past though, Lyon, Paris and I believe other major cities made some of them in the 19th century.

Now it's more important to create urban zones or whatever it's called, like "Grand Lyon" or the like. In the end the fact that there are 60 municipalities inside does not matter that much.