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Old 10-22-2015, 07:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny0881 View Post
Yes, I know PT and BR speak the same language but when I said Brazilian I meant Brazilian Portuguese which many people know it's very different from your Portuguese. I guess I can understand why most of you Portuguese folks want to keep your distance from your Spanish siblings and just refer to them as "neighbors" despite both of you being Iberians and sharing a common history for the most part. Centuries of Spain trying to take you guys over and acting like they are better than you must have really left a deep scar on you guys. I don't blame you ....
It sounds as if you got your ideas about Portugal and Spain from an American high school course in World History. Just to begin with - Portugal was a unified country for centuries before the country of Spain even existed...and that alone was the source of many significant differences in their history.

I don't hear Portuguese carry on about Spain in a negative way. The brief interlude of Spanish rule is long over, as is the Portuguese monarchy as well...nobody talks about these topics with any great emotion. Where I live the Spanish flock over to enjoy the beach and the restaurants, spending their euros, and they are very pleasant people on the whole and quite welcome
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Old 10-22-2015, 07:35 AM
 
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I'm talking about the meaning of Hispanic in the former Hispania. If in the Phyllipines they have other acception, I don't know. Maybe for them a Hispanic is somebody with bad teeth.

Portuguese, Spanish and Andorranos are Hispanic and Iberian in the former Hispania and Ibería.
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Old 10-22-2015, 07:42 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Back to topic, I think it depends a lot which country one compares it to. Peru and Colombia are very different from Argentina and Uruguay.
Given the dominating importance of language, Portugal automatically has much more in common with Brazil than with any other American country (or Spain).
Being Portuguese, as soon as you get off your plane in Brazil, you feel kind of at home, which is not the case in Argentina or Colombia etc.
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Old 10-22-2015, 07:44 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampliment View Post
I'm talking about the meaning of Hispanic in the former Hispania. If in the Phyllipines they have other acception, I don't know. Maybe for them a Hispanic is somebody with bad teeth.

Portuguese, Spanish and Andorranos are Hispanic and Iberian in the former Hispania and Ibería.
Philippines?!
Anyway, I am speaking of the modern usage of the term Hispanic in the US (after all, who else uses it?!), and that does not refer to Portugal/Brazil.
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
It sounds as if you got your ideas about Portugal and Spain from an American high school course in World History. Just to begin with - Portugal was a unified country for centuries before the country of Spain even existed...and that alone was the source of many significant differences in their history.

I don't hear Portuguese carry on about Spain in a negative way. The brief interlude of Spanish rule is long over, as is the Portuguese monarchy as well...nobody talks about these topics with any great emotion. Where I live the Spanish flock over to enjoy the beach and the restaurants, spending their euros, and they are very pleasant people on the whole and quite welcome



What difference in History?
Alfonso IV de León granted a county to his brother in law (county of Portugal).
So the history of the county was no different from León or Castile (that did not existed back then).
León broke away from Asturias and Castile brike from Leon and the County of Portugal from Leon.
Just like Galicia, that broke from Leon and became reunificated-invaded-by Castilians.
Not much difference.
It's quite natural that Castilians wanted Portugal, after all they (leoneses) created the country.
They also wanted Catalonia and Aragon and they did not help in the reconquest and had a diferent culture.
The rivalry between Portuguese and Spanish is folklorical.
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Philippines?!
Anyway, I am speaking of the modern usage of the term Hispanic in the US (after all, who else uses it?!), and that does not refer to Portugal/Brazil.


Hispanic is used a lot in Spain, it's a kind of demodée word but still used. It was a word high in favour during the 20's and 30's. It's used in academic contexts, in prizes, etc.

Cultured Americans include Portugal under the umbrella.

The fact that Portuguese in the US do not consider themselves Hispanic talks a lot about the kind of education they receive.

http://www.hispanicsociety.org/


The Hispanic Society of America
A free museum and reference library for the study of the arts
and cultures of Spain, Portugal, and Latin America.

Located on Audubon Terrace
Broadway between 155 and 156 Streets
(212) 926-2234

Mailing address:
613 West 155th Street
New York, NY 10032

Last edited by pampliment; 10-22-2015 at 08:22 AM..
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:19 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,915 posts, read 24,573,714 times
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The difference being that Asturias was not Spain, but just one of several parts of the peninsula at a time when neither Portugal nor Spain as such were in existence, yet. So it doesn't make sense to suggest the old Asturias (which was much bigger than the tiny Asturias of today) was Spain, Spain has always been just a sum of rather different smaller units, not unlike Switzerland or Belgium. And there has never been any reason why Portugal would be part of Spain because it never split from Spain in the first place.
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:22 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,915 posts, read 24,573,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampliment View Post
Hispanic is used a lot in Spain, it's a kind of demodée word but still used. It was a word high in favour during the 20's and 30's. It's used in academic contexts, in prizes, etc.

Cultured Americans include Portugal under the umbrella.

The Hispanic Society of America


The Hispanic Society of America
A free museum and reference library for the study of the arts
and cultures of Spain, Portugal, and Latin America.

Located on Audubon Terrace
Broadway between 155 and 156 Streets
(212) 926-2234

Mailing address:
613 West 155th Street
New York, NY 10032
That organization is not representative at all, Wiki got it right:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

One might say that as soon as people are not talking about the Roman province of Hispania, Hispanic only refers to cultures that have to do with Spain in one way or another.
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Old 10-22-2015, 09:14 AM
 
212 posts, read 207,028 times
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That organization is the most representative in the US.
Hispanic, as used by non-educated Americans, means "some sort of Mexican".
Just like saying that Bavarians are not "Germanic".
Wikipedia is not a very reliable source.
American politicians use the strangest definitions, not to mention the American Census Bureau.
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Old 10-22-2015, 09:20 AM
 
212 posts, read 207,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Back to topic, I think it depends a lot which country one compares it to. Peru and Colombia are very different from Argentina and Uruguay.
Given the dominating importance of language, Portugal automatically has much more in common with Brazil than with any other American country (or Spain).
Being Portuguese, as soon as you get off your plane in Brazil, you feel kind of at home, which is not the case in Argentina or Colombia etc.


They are Hispanic-American or Iberian-American or "Latin-American" as coined by Napoleon III.
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