Does Europe hate the U.S.A.? (house, Polish, speak)

[warptman]

So this is where you hang out, Sweden. Would love to go there one of these days. May is coming fast! I'll be in Europe then, I can't wait!

[orangeapple]

Originally Posted by ZipZap

Is there anything else than just reading these couple of negative posts that forms your impression of Europeans hating you? Just curious...

I haven't been to Europe, if that's what you're asking.
So mostly in other places online...articles, other message boards, people I talk to. Most Europeans in the US don't have a lot of negative things to say. A few have made snide remarks about very specific things (not directed towards me though, haha). Usually the most critical (& rude) comments have come from British people. It's simply far more surprising to hear people say nice things.

Originally Posted by Sweden

I don't know whether all "Europeans" are ACTUALLY voting no, but I know they have been saying no in the thread, hence my comment. The people in the thread has said that no, "europeans" in general do not hate Americans or the US.

There has indeed been many negative expressions towards the US expressed in this thread, but as I've said before, we can all dislike things without hating or even disliking something or someone in general.
I dislike my brother ALWAYS waking me up at 05:42 every single morning, but I don't hate him or dislike him in general. I dislike this particular behaviour of his.
The same as I don't like US foreign politics, along with certain other things, but I don't hate the US or Americans in general because of this. That's the difference, but that's something that seems to be forgotten when it comes to whether "Europe" hates "USA". We can dislike certain things without disliking everything.

The problem is that we're discussing a highly sensitive subject. Nationality and pride. Patriotism and rationality do not work well together.
I can, objectively, see that someone else from e.g. Poland can dislike something about e.g. Bolivia, without hating Bolivia or the Bolivian people. However, I admit that even I would maybe react subjectivly to someone from e.g. Poland disliking something about Sweden. Same thing goes for e.g. Americans - someone from Poland can dislike something with Bolivia without hating Bolivia or the Bolivian people, but if this same person from e.g. Poland dislikes something about the US, it will oftentimes be perceived as if this person hates or dislikes the entire US and its people.

See what I mean? No one likes everything about anything, but that doesn't mean that everyone hates everything. We are all humans.

Yes, I definitely see what you mean. I understand that there is more sensitivity for comments made about your "own", but you have to admit that if the majority of the feedback people are getting is negative, then it's understandable that they might feel "hated". I think the US goes under a harsher scrutiny than most other countries.
If only certain things are disliked, then why all the focus on just those things? As I said before, the negative comments seem to be made to justify a general opinion & they seem to far outweigh the positive ones.

[ResidenceConfidence]

who cares about this matter back in europe? none for sure.

[Sweden]

Originally Posted by orangeapple

Yes, I definitely see what you mean. I understand that there is more sensitivity for comments made about your "own", but you have to admit that if the majority of the feedback people are getting is negative, then it's understandable that they might feel "hated". I think the US goes under a harsher scrutiny than most other countries.
If only certain things are disliked, then why all the focus on just those things? As I said before, the negative comments seem to be made to justify a general opinion & they seem to far outweigh the positive ones.

The US does indeed go under a harsh scrutiny, but that is only understandable since this is a time when news are global and in abundance, and when the US is the only super power and is present everywhere in the world, and its actions affect a lot of people. Say the war in Iraq- it does not just affect soldiers and their families and the people in Iraq or the neighbouring countries, it affects people and neutral countries too. Sweden for example takes in more Iraqi refugees than all of the EU (minues Sweden) together, and our counties faces difficulties etc. taking care of these. So we do have a say in the matter, eventhough we are pressumably neutral. And so we might focus on the negatives, because the negatives are what troubles us right now.
People focus on the negatives on everything, because we tend to notice problems more than we notice good things, because good things are "taken for granted".
People may not focus on the food or the movies or the TV series etc. (if they like these) and praise the US for its contributions, when they experience that there are problems (due to US actions, etc) that out weight the "positives" or that take up more concscious thinking than the "positives".
That is one explanation.
Another explanation may be that people are provoced by the American "we are the free country, we freed you Europeans in the WWs, we are the best of everything, etc". People never like to hear that someone else thinks he or she is better than someone else, and so they (we humans) tend to try to bring the one saying that down. Sure, it's good to be proud of one's country and people, but one shouldn't persist in telling others that one's country or people is the best, since that will in most cases provoce people.

I personally don't believe that people "hate" the US because they feel inferior to the country/people (which has been implyed many times on City Data), because if that was the case, people would "hate" other countries instead. Sweden is the most democratic country in the world, but "the Middle east" isn't threatening us, therefore one could assume that it is not democracy they hate. Sweden is also according to a recent study (to be found in the UK forum) the world's most stabile and prosperous country, yet people do not hate us because of this either.
In my personal belief, this shows that what people "hate" or "dislike" and are prone to focus on bringing down, is not actual facts (wealth, government, statistics, etc) but attitudes.
So if someone experiences that people only say negative things about one's country/people, one shouldn't try to tell them they are wrong (i.d. defend one's countr/people with all one has got) but to say that one understands what they mean, maybe agree with some things, and try to set aside the "hurt feelings" (deriving from hurt national pride, conscious or unconscious).
If one gets beyond that first layer of "we're opponents, since we are from different countries, and I'm going to show you that you are wrong and I am right", one might get down to the second level and hopefully be able to discuss the differences and attitudes towards each other (and other things) as they really are.
People don't say the same things to someone from another country as they do to someone from one's own country. I admit, that when we've had Americans over at my school to talk with us during our English lessons, we (my fellow class mates and I) have not said the same things when discussing between ourselves as when we discussed them with the Americans. We were far more understanding when talking among ourselves- we could even see positives with the Iraq war- but as soon as we had to discuss it with the Americans, who had already, in their introdution, told us that they were proud Americans who supported everything their "Great Nation" did, we weren't as understanding any more.
We whispered understanding words between ourselves in Swedish, but we only defended the argument that war is bad, not matter what, with them.

It's about attitudes. Our relationship, between "Europeans" and Americans, is complicated and there are many factors involved in it. As a "European", I can tell you that yes, there are many negative feelings towards the US and Americans, but I have yet to meet someone who "hates" or even "dislikes" the US or the American people in general. Most is about the government and its foreign politics.
But, I can also tell you, as a Swede, that I have yet to find a single Swede who likes the Swedish government. Yes, nationalism and patriotism is frowned upon in Sweden, but we're still not a nation of "self-haters". So it is possible to dislike something fundamental about a nation without disliking it in general.
Mention the US, and people will bring up negatives, mostly about politics.
Mention the Swedish government, and people will bring up negatives.

We're all humans, but sometimes I wish we were all cats. They seem so much more at ease with everything

[Puck74]

Hello everyone,

Europe don't hate USA.
The governement of the united states is to blame. The recent results of independants investigations about 09/11 confirm the reaction of UE (except Britain) against the war.
It seems americans must react against the Devil-inside and Europeans are waiting for that.

[ZipZap]

Originally Posted by orangeapple

It's simply far more surprising to hear people say nice things.

Well let me surprise you then.

Many people for sure envy you to live in one of the worlds most desireable countries. There is no other place that offers its citizens and visitors a greater variety of experiences and opportunities within its borders. Plus high standard of living, strong economy and powerful military. And most important... it is fun to hang around with you guys on the Oktoberfest ;-)

Are there things that could be better? I am convinced there are plenty... but that is true for virtually every country in the world.

[pigeonhole]

....although I'm well aware that this country is not perfect (but which country is perfect then?).
My biggest concern, as an European, is the failed, confrontational US policy
towards Russia since it (fortunately) abandoned Communism 1991.
I have also a lot of interest (and admiration for) that overwhelming country, and what's funny, is when one study each country (USA and Russia), one sees a lot in common in both : the gigantic size, continental climate, mineral resources, religious people (Christianity mostly), mentality of "pioneers",cultural proximity (lots of Slavs immigrants built the US, especially New York, the Northern states), Alaska was Russian in days of yore and there are still a lot of traces there of that Russian presence.
America (and Europe too, right in the middle!)has a vested interest in having good relashonship with Russia, especially in view of the Islamist threat worldwide. But no, we hear to often a stupid rhetoric comparing Putin to Hitler, which is of course ridiculous.
In my view, the fault here lies squarely with the US Governments who for whatever reason didn't see the necessity of good relationships with Russia to guarantee the stability of the northern hemisphere.

[KGR]

pigeonhole,

Can you name any sources for the comparison between Putin and Hitler? I have never heard this comparison before. Also, can you give any examples as to what you mean by "failed, confrontational US policy toward Russia".

[pigeonhole]

The whole Kosovo issue is revolting.
The way the Serbian minority is treated by the West is a shame.
But then there are geostategical interests there (Camp Bondsteel).
Although it's not only the US,Europe is also at fault here.
And c'mon , explain to me why the US wants to install Cruise Missile in the Czech Republic (Central Europe)...against the Iranian threat ???? (a 5 year old wouldn't believe this crap).
And I could rave on and on and on.
Old hands like Mr. Brezinzky and other spin doctors who delight in the Cold War rhetoric of the "Evil Empire" and seem to believe Mr Brejnev still rules in Moscow and the Berlin Wall still exists wield way too much influence in Washington, be it under Republican or Democratic administrations.
These ideologues had better remember 9/11 and where the real threats lie in today's world.

[KGR]

pigeonhole,

I do not know what Kosovo has to do with the "failed, confrontational" policy of the US toward Russia. The mission in Kosovo is a UN/NATO mission (KFOR) that included Russia. You singled out only the American contribution to a multi-national force before stating that, oh yeah, Europe is also at fault.
As far as missile deployment in the Czech Republic and Poland, I believe they are anti-ballistic missiles (defensive weapons), not cruise missiles (offensive weapons). If the US wanted a site to launch cruise missiles against Iran (or anywhere for that matter), I don't think Poland and the Czech Republic would be at the top of the wish list, but what do I know.

Therefore, the question still stands. What examples of "failed, confrontational US policy toward Russia" do you have? Take into consideration that Russia has given Iran nuclear technology despite concerns that Iran may be trying to develope nuclear weapons. Also, what about Russian military technology and equipement being exported to Iran and Syria? As you said, lets not forget where the real threat lies in the post-9/11 world! And lets not forget that the US has given Russia BILLIONS of dollars in aid since the fall of communism.

As far as Zbigniew Brzezinksi, do you mean the Pole who served in the Carter adminisration 30 years ago? I have to admit that I had to look him up on the internet because I really had no idea who he was. I found out that since holding some minor posts in the first Bush administration in the early 90's, he really hasn't been too involved politically. He is currently a foreign affairs advisor to Obama's presidential campaign. Lets not inflate his importance or influence in American foreign policy. Most americans, like myself, would not even recognize his name. By the way, did you know that he was an outspoke critic of the invasion of Iraq as well as the first gulf war? He can't be that bad!

My intention was not to get into a debate with you regarding US-Russia foreign policy. I also do not want to come across as blindly pro-US. As I stated earlier, the US has made some big big mistakes. My point is that I (and most other americans) are sick of hearing all the bashing of the US by others. What about Al-qaeda? What about Kim Jong-il? What about supposed Russian oppression in Chechnya? Why do I not hear the same level of bashing toward them? I think in this day and age it is popular to criticize the US. I have an idea! Lets start a thread on all the good and positive things the US has done for the rest of the world and compare it to the list of every other nation!

I think you will be humbled.


KGR