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View Poll Results: Does anyone think that Europe hates the U.S.A.?
Yes 88 50.87%
No 85 49.13%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-16-2008, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Bordeaux, France
50 posts, read 144,772 times
Reputation: 29

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what about people dying because they don't have insurance, homeless, unemployment insecurity, autorised arms, privacy and high crime rate in the big cities

 
Old 03-16-2008, 02:01 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 2,095,146 times
Reputation: 1901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bordeaux View Post
what about people dying because they don't have insurance, homeless, unemployment insecurity, autorised arms, privacy and high crime rate in the big cities
All those things happen in France too. First off, I answered many of those if you only read the post. Second, where do you get this "info"? TV? Not very enlightended.
 
Old 03-16-2008, 02:16 PM
 
4 posts, read 6,138 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ingrid fitzwinslow View Post
You were right to pose that question. Thank you. I don't think we HATE Americans, but we detest what you stand for, and in many ways we hate America. Americans in general think they live in the land of the free and that America is the most democratic country on earth, but you're so far removed from both concepts that we all wonder whether you're brainwashed. Personally, I find it utterly scary that the US is the super power of the world, with its scant knowledge of world history and the world around them. Voting in a president that is de facto a war criminal (not the first one, Nixon is another) not once but TWICE is well nigh incomprehensible. I have lots of American friends that share my views, but the masses have got it all wrong. My US friends are suffering too, especially when they travel. You're naive yet gun toting, paranoid to an extent that if you were a person you'd be certified, bible basher yet unpractising on a deeper level, meddling in countries you know little about. A grassroot dialogue would be a great idea, so anyone who'd like to write to me please do.
[EMAIL="ingridfitzgerald@mail.com"]ingridfitzgerald@mail.com[/EMAIL]
Please remember that Bush lost the popular vote in the first election and it was close in the second. Fully one half of the country disagreed with his views during those two elections, and now its around 80%.
 
Old 03-16-2008, 03:17 PM
 
4 posts, read 6,138 times
Reputation: 12
Default French healthcare system vrs U.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Ne View Post
Small question: whats your tax rate for that health system?
What is the premium you are paying for yours?
 
Old 03-16-2008, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska (most of the time)
1,164 posts, read 2,444,058 times
Reputation: 1677
Default Europe is not a country - it's a continent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
All those things happen in France too. First off, I answered many of those if you only read the post. Second, where do you get this "info"? TV? Not very enlightended.
I'd say it's not very enlightened to say "Europe did this and that" either. When did Sweden kill people in the WWs? Or when did we kill people "all over the world"? We're part of Europe, but we're not EUROPE.

Please notice the HUGE diversity between different European countries.
 
Old 03-16-2008, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Southern California
3,279 posts, read 4,584,076 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian67 View Post
Hello!

Good question! We don't hate Americans but believe you're being totally brainwashed by your government. Paranoia and distrust seem to be the order of the day. Violent movies and horrific visuals of poor students mown down by crazy gunmen fill our TV screens daily. Why produce / export all this meaningless violence just for the sake of the enriching film studio shareholders and decadent movie stars? Are these the people we ought to emulate? Why export violence sending out the wrong message to the rest of the world? What Hollywood has succeeded in doing is presenting a violent,paranoid,distrusting police run society where the whole fabric of US society has seemingly disintegrated. Hollywood ought to produce uplifting,wholesome films which have some bearing on our short lives. You can't blame non visitors to the US thinking that the US is a violent country. Five weeks of US murders are equal to the sad deaths in 9/11.

We fail to understand why you vote in Bush who has succeeded in ruining your economy and tarnishing the good name of the US. Every American is now a terrorist target abroad. In 2003, a barrel of oil was $25 now it's $110! You'll soon be paying $10 a gallon. Why? To support the war in Iraq/Afghanistan. The only real friend the US seems to have is Israel. $12 million a month is spent in Iraq only to see many of your loved ones return in body bags. Haven't you learnt anything from your 50.000 Vietnam deaths? Why meddle in other countries? Why are you so naive? Why not learn from history? Why not negotiate with terrorists like we did in Ireland. If Israel can negotiate with the Palestianians, surely the US could sit down with them and find out what they want? Opening a channel of communication is vital if your Government wants to solve international terrorism. Maybe Ireland ought to send ex IRA terrorists, Gerry Adams / Martin McGuinness to talk to Al-Queda! Aren't they now "respected" and friends of Bush? Surely this is an avenue worth persuing increasing the possibility of bringing your boys safely home? How many more US families must suffer? Why don't Americans excercise the only power they seem to have by demonstrating in mass (a million man march) on Washington DC at the gross misconduct of your administraton?

Your administration's number one priority ought to be to provide free health care to the poor and ban bank foreclosures kicking the less fortunate in your society out of their homes. There also ought to be a cap on extreme wealth instead of the rich being allowed to openly flaunt their wealth. Is this really the American dream? Is this really the land of Freedom and Democracy?

Since '68, I have enjoyed my many visits, crossing your beautiful country three times and meeting many friendly, hard working Americans. Due to the extreme paranoia and difficulty in travelling to the US, my memorable days of visiting America are sadly over.

Happy Saint Patrick's Day from a very sad Irishman!
So we're the naive & brainwashed ones, and yet, you are defending some Europeans' view of Americans by saying that this is the impression TV & Hollywood gives them? Because those are reliable sources?
I guess if I go by TV & Hollywood, then most Irishmen are low class, irresponsible drunks who hit their wives & can't hold down a job. Not very fair, is it?

You don't understand why we vote in Bush...it's obvious YOU don't understand our government. The majority did NOT vote in Bush. Why don't you look up what the "electoral college" is? Before you tell people how to run their government, maybe you should have some grasp on how it is set up.
People tell us we're naive to think the US is so democratic & free, then in the next breath they tell us we have the control to change things. Well, which is it?
We shouldn't meddle in other countries, but of course you know everything we should be doing...so I guess it's okay for you to meddle, as you know what's best for us, right?
 
Old 03-16-2008, 06:16 PM
 
Location: The Woods
14,396 posts, read 13,557,135 times
Reputation: 5999
Well, I voted yes, but I suppose it wouldn't be fair to not explain would it? I know not all Europeans hate America and Americans (ahem, I'm a Vermonter and an Alaskan, not an American, states' rights you know, we're actually 50 countries...). I've met many Europeans who weren't anti-American at all, but then, they were visiting the US so that would make sense. I've chatted online with Europeans who don't come across as anti-American.

However, it's hard to ignore the fact that there seems to be an attitude in a lot of Europeans (especially pronounced in British and French people I've noticed) where they look down on Americans as lacking "culture," being fat/stupid/lazy, being prone to violence (this comes out when discussing guns), etc. I've been told this attitude exists by some of the Europeans I've met here in the U.S. in fact. I think Europeans need to realize how different, and how big, the U.S. is. We most definately do have a culture, just a different one, with more emphasis on individualism and freedom, in much of the country, but a big variety of different little cultures within this collection of 50 states (and additional territories) so you can find almost anything you like or hate here culturally. Europe has traditionally been a lot more divided along socially constructed class lines than the U.S. has and has had less freedom and more government involvement in personal matters (socialism is distasteful to many Americans because, frankly, here it's not the government's job to take care of individuals, and it takes away much of the incentive to work hard, punishes those who have been successful and rewards those who might be lazy, though FDR started us down the socialism path in the 30's to avoid a potential revolution). On guns, there is much variety here, from places that heavily restrict them (like NYC, Chicago, etc.) to places (like VT or AK) where anything goes pretty much so long as you don't threaten others, it's part of our tradition of freedom and distrust for too much government, and individualism, seeing as how it's generally been considered (more so in the past but the SCOTUS still agrees) that it's the responsibility of individuals to take care of themselves. We're not all walking around shooting each other over little insults just because we can in many places carry guns, like some Europeans seem to think based on mostly hollywood and their own governments' propaganda. At least, I haven't, and I carry one everyday, almost everywhere, in the Republic of Vermont and will do so also in Alaska. As for politics in general, there are so many different views and ideas in this country you can't make any accurate generalizations. I think we (our populations in general, not referring to specific individuals) have so many inaccurate views of each other based on false information or generalizations we can't help but have some negative opinions of each other. I wouldn't ever want to live in Europe myself but I don't hate Europe or Europeans...

With regards to hollywood presenting a particular image of us, I think some Europeans should hear of some of the comments that get directed at hollywood, and California in general, by people in other parts of the country.
 
Old 03-17-2008, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Miami
888 posts, read 88,855 times
Reputation: 658
This is all personal opinion and generalizations, BUT here it goes ...

Having lived and worked throughout both continents for long periods of time, and having dual US-EU citizenship, I would have to side with the Europeans' on this forum. They certainly understand a lot more about the States than Americans understand about Europe. Europeans in general are more cultured and intellectually curious than Americans, their educational systems are generally better. Europeans have learned how to think, analyze and debate. Americans believe they can debate, but they are quite mediocre at it (but are not really interested in thinking deeply about anything). American men can be very intimidated by European men - even if they vehemently deny it. Americans do not read as much as Europeans. They have a very isolated and nave view on the world compared to Europeans. Americans are far more violent than Europeans. Americans generally think it is fine to "kick someone's butt" just for having their feelings hurt. European healthcare is better, by far (even Italy). I think it's hilarious how Americans defend the 2000 elections, GW was supported by half the population, same goes for 2004 - so quit trying make excuses. Europeans are generally more polite, and can behave better in public. They take better care of their entire population than the US does. Food in Europe is a lot better, generally speaking. What I also find totally hilarious is American's ignorance about "socialism". They criticize Europe for being "socialist" yet they have hardly the slightest clue what social democracy is. They don't want to learn, they don't want to know - they would just prefer thinking that the US is the best there is. By the way, I believe that Europe is just as "free" - if not moreso - than the USA. Europeans are far more interested in learning from other countries. The list goes on and on... I think the biggest thing is that Americans really believe that their way of life is superior to others, and they can be quite arrogant and militant about it. America has done a lousy job of leading the world the past few years, and has completely squandered the global political capital they had post 9/11.

Don't give me this "it's the government, not the people" BS. Remember, 70% of the US population was FOR the war in Iraq in 2003 (this includes democrats and republicans), while a huge majority of Europe was AGAINST it. That should tell you something about the differences between the two places. Don't start giving me the whiny excuses about Bush's lies about WMD. The truth is, Europe had the same intelligence as the US, yet most remained anti-war. After 9/11 most Americans wanted to kick butt with an enemy they could SEE, and so it was fairly easy for them to believe whatever GWB fed them. Europeans were far more skeptical and acted accordingly. Americans need to stop blaming GWB and start looking in the mirror. The people who voted for him are to blame. Period. Assume responsibility.

By the way, this is *today* we are talking about - not 100 or 500 or 1000 years ago, so you Americans quit whining about European history. They have learned from their mistakes - can you say the same thing?

Am I qualified to make these statements? Most certainly yes. I have spent half my life in both continents, speak 4 languages fluently and am a professional/executive type who has done extremely well on both continents. I seriously doubt anyone could say something to change my overall viewpoint, although I am quite open to change.

If I criticize Americans, it's only because I care deeply about the country. If I did not care, I would not even waste my time writing about it here. I know there are millions in the States who agree with me. Those tens of millions that agree with me is what makes life enjoyable here, and it's something Europeans need to keep in mind. By the way, I enourage Europeans to log onto NPR : National Public Radio : News & Analysis, World, US, Music & Arts or VOA News - Voice of America Homepage, and you will clearly see that there are tens of millions of enlightened people here - even if they are a clear minority within the 300+ million population.

Oh yes ... and Viva Italia!
 
Old 03-18-2008, 07:28 AM
 
Location: At Sea....and Midwest....
272 posts, read 545,413 times
Reputation: 153
Dear Europe....I take care of myself, the American way.....Thank you very much...
I don't need "auto arms"....my semi-autos are perfectly sufficient.
I insure myself by saving my money investing and spending wisely. I don't look to the state to take care of me....because I'm wise enough to know that ultimately it WON'T.
Though admittedly....protecting myself from the state particularly the tax-man is a challenge...but this keeps life interesting....
I left the high crime cities...because left-wing socialist liberal politicians pandered to criminals to an unbelievably absurd degree....and made the cities U.N.-safe....so I moved to the country where there has not been a serious crime in almost a decade! We don't have homeless people here...because people here are sane....pursue higher education...are industrious....work hard and buy homes! [Wow! What a Concept! IMAGINE THAT!]
As for secure....where I live we are all very secure....We basically don't have 'bad guys' in our area....because we can see you coming for many miles....and by the time the bad guys arrive the table is all set! [so have a SEAT!!!]
And I have all the privacy I want.....so...... this is why I'm TOTALLY ALIVE!

And as for Europeans being more intellectual educated well read and better medicated than the 'States'....etc etc....
I lived in Europe....Both East and West...and found a STUNNING number of Europeans who were shockingly UNEDUCATED about America....The misconceptions perpetuated in the European press continue to feed the most bizarre lies and half-truths to the public in their respective European Nations that, far less than hurting America [seemingly the whole point of the exercise] do a great disservice to the Europeans themselves.
I can't even BEGIN to recount the nearly endless experiences I've had with Europeans in America stuck in the most foolish mindsets....Some were expecting to be attacked and eaten by bears...or go out west and play 'cowboy'.....or got completely freaked out by "too many trees".....others were worried about lynchings....others only wanted to go shopping for cheap brand name clothes....on and on and on.....Some never got out of the stupid tourist buses..and took a damn hard LOOK at the cities and towns they were blasting through on their 'invasion' plan vacations....
And Americans are violent? That would be a rather odd comment coming from a continent that PRIDED itself on the length of it almost innumerable wars...colonial empires and brutal internal strife.....BRAVO! Self deception at its BEST! Want to pass judgment? LOOK AT YOURSELF!


Signed.....
American....not in Paris.......

Last edited by Coffee Mate; 03-18-2008 at 08:06 AM.. Reason: ........
 
Old 03-18-2008, 07:41 AM
 
Location: The Woods
14,396 posts, read 13,557,135 times
Reputation: 5999
Quote:
Originally Posted by palermodude View Post
This is all personal opinion and generalizations, BUT here it goes ...

Having lived and worked throughout both continents for long periods of time, and having dual US-EU citizenship, I would have to side with the Europeans' on this forum. They certainly understand a lot more about the States than Americans understand about Europe. Europeans in general are more cultured and intellectually curious than Americans, their educational systems are generally better. Europeans have learned how to think, analyze and debate. Americans believe they can debate, but they are quite mediocre at it (but are not really interested in thinking deeply about anything). American men can be very intimidated by European men - even if they vehemently deny it. Americans do not read as much as Europeans. They have a very isolated and nave view on the world compared to Europeans. Americans are far more violent than Europeans. Americans generally think it is fine to "kick someone's butt" just for having their feelings hurt. European healthcare is better, by far (even Italy). I think it's hilarious how Americans defend the 2000 elections, GW was supported by half the population, same goes for 2004 - so quit trying make excuses. Europeans are generally more polite, and can behave better in public. They take better care of their entire population than the US does. Food in Europe is a lot better, generally speaking. What I also find totally hilarious is American's ignorance about "socialism". They criticize Europe for being "socialist" yet they have hardly the slightest clue what social democracy is. They don't want to learn, they don't want to know - they would just prefer thinking that the US is the best there is. By the way, I believe that Europe is just as "free" - if not moreso - than the USA. Europeans are far more interested in learning from other countries. The list goes on and on... I think the biggest thing is that Americans really believe that their way of life is superior to others, and they can be quite arrogant and militant about it. America has done a lousy job of leading the world the past few years, and has completely squandered the global political capital they had post 9/11.

Don't give me this "it's the government, not the people" BS. Remember, 70% of the US population was FOR the war in Iraq in 2003 (this includes democrats and republicans), while a huge majority of Europe was AGAINST it. That should tell you something about the differences between the two places. Don't start giving me the whiny excuses about Bush's lies about WMD. The truth is, Europe had the same intelligence as the US, yet most remained anti-war. After 9/11 most Americans wanted to kick butt with an enemy they could SEE, and so it was fairly easy for them to believe whatever GWB fed them. Europeans were far more skeptical and acted accordingly. Americans need to stop blaming GWB and start looking in the mirror. The people who voted for him are to blame. Period. Assume responsibility.

By the way, this is *today* we are talking about - not 100 or 500 or 1000 years ago, so you Americans quit whining about European history. They have learned from their mistakes - can you say the same thing?

Am I qualified to make these statements? Most certainly yes. I have spent half my life in both continents, speak 4 languages fluently and am a professional/executive type who has done extremely well on both continents. I seriously doubt anyone could say something to change my overall viewpoint, although I am quite open to change.

If I criticize Americans, it's only because I care deeply about the country. If I did not care, I would not even waste my time writing about it here. I know there are millions in the States who agree with me. Those tens of millions that agree with me is what makes life enjoyable here, and it's something Europeans need to keep in mind. By the way, I enourage Europeans to log onto NPR : National Public Radio : News & Analysis, World, US, Music & Arts or VOA News - Voice of America Homepage, and you will clearly see that there are tens of millions of enlightened people here - even if they are a clear minority within the 300+ million population.

Oh yes ... and Viva Italia!
You have proven exactly what I said: "there seems to be an attitude in a lot of Europeans (especially pronounced in British and French people I've noticed) where they look down on Americans as lacking "culture," being fat/stupid/lazy, being prone to violence (this comes out when discussing guns), etc."
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