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I used to work with this very strongly obsessed with his Mexican roots California woman who finished her degree on Latin American studies and moved to Mexico to become a teacher, and when she got there, she not only suffered major culture shock but she told me Mexicans generally referred to her as "the American teacher".
That's a good story. My dad grew up as an American in Mexico from 8 years old to graduating college and says he never felt like a part of the country even after that long.
I'll reiterate though, that while the vast majority of Americans feel American as I do, an interest in our past comes not from a desire to belittle others or prop up ourselves but just because we don't have a long history like natives of a country (or geographic area) going back 1000's of years do. The American sense of identity is still being formed in some respect partly because we're still changing in a big way and also because it's just human nature.
Another interesting fact is how much more educated Europeans are today compared to before. When Europeans were leaving Europe by the millions, the average European was illiterate, average European woman had 8 or 9 kids.
I read that on Ellis island in NYC they had inspectors who checked the arrivals because many were infested with lice, or skin diseases that were contagious, tons of people with leprosy, many had no teeth, the average couldn't read or write, many were very malnourished and were desperate to make it to North or South America which were back then almost empty lands with better weather and opportunities to build something in a hemisphere that was almost empty and on the process of building!
I was shocked to find out in many parts of Europe even in the early 20th century only the rich could read and write, and speaking Latin and owning books meant you were part of the upper classes.
That's a good story. My dad grew up as an American in Mexico from 8 years old to graduating college and says he never felt like a part of the country even after that long.
I'll reiterate though, that while the vast majority of Americans feel American as I do, an interest in our past comes not from a desire to belittle others or prop up ourselves but just because we don't have a long history like natives of a country (or geographic area) going back 1000's of years do. The American sense of identity is still being formed in some respect partly because we're still changing in a big way and also because it's just human nature.
Actually most of human identity that we know today is actually quite new. A majority of European nations formed their identity in the 18th and 19th centuries often doing it in a very forced manner. In the past a person's identity was most often connected to their hometown or a specific providence and not so much connected to what we would consider to be a national identity. That said, the American identity is very interesting and what Americans have accomplished as a group is incredible.
Actually most of human identity that we know today is actually quite new. A majority of European nations formed their identity in the 18th and 19th centuries often doing it in a very forced manner. In the past a person's identity was most often connected to their hometown or a specific providence and not so much connected to what we would consider to be a national identity. That said, the American identity is very interesting and what Americans have accomplished as a group is incredible.
Come to think of it, you're right! The US is actually older than most European countries!
European identity was specially shaped after WWI which is when many empires disappeared, or ancient kingdoms vanished, or special territories lost part of their land.
Before WWII Eastern Europe for example was very heterogeneous, which is not the case today. Eastern Europe in the past was a melting pot of ethnic groups sometimes fighting each other! Western Europe had empires all over the planet, most of Germany was in Prussia, the capital of Belarus was poland and half of the big cities in Poland were East Prussia. Hamburg was still a hanseatic city, Alsace was not in France, Transilanya was part of Hungary and Slovakia was half in Czech republic and in Hungary. Then they had the Brilliant idea of forcing a bunch of different ethnic groups into forming one nation called Yugoslavia! Italy was pretty much two countries (non officially but pretty visible). Austria and Hungary were one political entity, Parts of Northern Italy were in Yugoslavia, Romania was half of what it is today, Kaliningrad Russia was a German city.
It's surprising how poor Europe was just over 80 years ago!
I can only imagine how depressing it must have been trying to survive in January 1929 in the middle of the winter, in some damp gloomy Irish slum, or dark cold Norwegian mining town.
It's no wonder Europeans left to North and South America in such vast numbers!
Have you seen how NYC looked like in 1900? Half of Manhattan was a huge slum.
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Originally Posted by mille-electronics
Ireland for example was as poor as a poor African nation. Sweden too.
Definitely not. Sweden was richer in 1900 than many African countries are today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mille-electronics
I was shocked to find out in many parts of Europe even in the early 20th century only the rich could read and write, and speaking Latin and owning books meant you were part of the upper classes.
Latin was not a thing in the 20th century. Scandinavia, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and Britain had achieved 100% literacy by 1900. In France some 80% could read and write.
You exaggerate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mille-electronics
Come to think of it, you're right! The US is actually older than most European countries!
European identity was specially shaped after WWI which is when many empires disappeared, or ancient kingdoms vanished, or special territories lost part of their land.
Before WWII Eastern Europe for example was very heterogeneous, which is not the case today. Eastern Europe in the past was a melting pot of ethnic groups sometimes fighting each other! Western Europe had empires all over the planet, most of Germany was in Prussia, the capital of Belarus was poland and half of the big cities in Poland were East Prussia. Hamburg was still a hanseatic city, Alsace was not in France, Transilanya was part of Hungary and Slovakia was half in Czech republic and in Hungary. Then they had the Brilliant idea of forcing a bunch of different ethnic groups into forming one nation called Yugoslavia! Italy was pretty much two countries (non officially but pretty visible). Austria and Hungary were one political entity, Parts of Northern Italy were in Yugoslavia, Romania was half of what it is today, Kaliningrad Russia was a German city.
Europe has changed so much!
Uhm, you want to check your history and a map from 1918 maybe...
Actually most of human identity that we know today is actually quite new. A majority of European nations formed their identity in the 18th and 19th centuries often doing it in a very forced manner. In the past a person's identity was most often connected to their hometown or a specific providence and not so much connected to what we would consider to be a national identity. That said, the American identity is very interesting and what Americans have accomplished as a group is incredible.
Can you explain to me what an American identity is, and what is so incredible they have accomplished as a group?
I've wondered what modern Europeans think, in general, of people from their country who left en mass for faraway places in the past? Were they the crazy ones who left? The troublemakers? The entrepreneurs? The sellouts who couldn't hack hard times?
Maybe you don't think much about them at all. I know in general Americans, the ones with European ancestry anyway, think about Europe a fair bit. One look at CD demonstrates that.
I myself traveled to the German town that shares my families name (more accurately from whence my families name came) and the people there I spoke with seemed kind of nonchalant about it. Surprised even, that I was interested enough to travel that far. Truthfully there was a lot more to my agenda that trip. But I went a fair distance out of my way to see it and take a picture with the Willkommen sign.
I enjoyed the really good beer, wonderful schnitzel and the picturesque scenery. My feelings weren't hurt or anything and perhaps they were just reserved, as I was a stranger, so I ask in this less formal setting.
They were probably happy to get rid of us. We were the poor ones with adjustment issues or religious fervor.
Personally, I don't ever think about it. I like Europe and the UK but I never once gave a thought to my past connections there.
Can you explain to me what an American identity is, and what is so incredible they have accomplished as a group?
The American identity is rooted in the belief in the idea of America. Unlike most of the planet who conceptualize their identity through ethnicity or religion. The American identity is united through the implementation of an idea.
Americans contribution to art, science, sport and technology over the last 200 years is almost without comparison. As a people Americans have created some of the best universities in the world. Have taken home 48% of all the Nobel Prizes in the sciences while making up only 5% of the worlds population. A limitless amount of technological innovation including the airplane, the transistor, the internet, skyscrapers etc. Americans are the only people to have sent a man to the moon and have also sent a machine beyond the reaches of the universe. We wouldn't be here discussing things on this forum if it had not been for many very smart American people. This is not to say that there has not been many great contributions for peoples around the world. But Americans have earned their right to be very proud and their is no denying that.
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