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Yes I understand that and I know that the Irish aren't the only group who have lost their language to the English language over time. Here in Canada I work with the Indigenous populations and pretty much all of them have lost their languages to the English language. They are trying to revive their languages with limited success.
The thing is when you speak a different language, it gives you a way of looking at the world that you wouldn't normally have by just speaking English with a window into that particular culture. The Irish and other groups have indeed lost something special by giving up on their language over time and it is a shame and a pity is all I am saying.
I would say that a group's cultural identity while still there is weakened by a loss of the native language.
My point was that they "didn't give up on their language". There was a lot of factors involved in why Irish declined. You can't compare what happened in Ireland to any modern day populations. Any country with the history of Ireland would have the same issues with their national language.
Most Irish today have been English speaking for generations but being Irish is more than a language.
My point was that they "didn't give up on their language". There was a lot of factors involved in why Irish declined. You can't compare what happened in Ireland to any modern day populations. Any country with the history of Ireland would have the same issues with their national language.
Most Irish today have been English speaking for generations but being Irish is more than a language.
Language may not be all that a culture and identity is about, but I think it is by far the most important part. Without your own language, you can't create culture content (songs, media, literature etc) that is unique and the identity will be increasingly weaker if not dying.
Language may not be all that a culture and identity is about, but I think it is by far the most important part. Without your own language, you can't create culture content (songs, media, literature etc) that is unique and the identity will be increasingly weaker if not dying.
Well that doesn't appear to correlate with being Irish as the strongest Irish identity in literature has been post-Irish language.
Irish identity hasn't diminished at all in the last 200 years. In fact a lot of Irish milestones are post-Irish language such as 1916 and Irish independence which are very integral in Irish identify.
Language is of course important but in the Irish experience it is not the major component.
Irish identity is a lot more complex than language.
I think the most important thing to Irish identity is that they have an independent country which is much more important than a language. But saying that all Irish students do have to learn Irish but I think Irish identity is quite strong no matter what the language is. It's not like Irish is dead but I think Irish identity transcends language.
Language may not be all that a culture and identity is about, but I think it is by far the most important part. Without your own language, you can't create culture content (songs, media, literature etc) that is unique and the identity will be increasingly weaker if not dying.
Irish people don't care enough about the Irish language to revive it.
My point was that they "didn't give up on their language". There was a lot of factors involved in why Irish declined. You can't compare what happened in Ireland to any modern day populations. Any country with the history of Ireland would have the same issues with their national language.
Most Irish today have been English speaking for generations but being Irish is more than a language.
Anytime a parent chooses not to speak to a child in their native language but instead another language then that means that they are giving up on their native language. That is obviously what happened over time. That is how languages are lost. The older generation chooses not to speak to the younger ones in the native language. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the situation in the Faroe Islands is similar to Ireland in that the native language was not the main language of administration for over 400 years and was not allowed in schools or churches. In fact, Faroese did not even have a written standard language until the middle of the 19th century. Irish language literature goes back much further. Yet today, most Faroese people still speak Faroese as their mother tongue.... It's true that Danish is a much weaker language today compared to English but it is still much stronger than Faroese and many Faroese seek higher opportunities in Denmark....
Quote:
Originally Posted by GymFanatic
Irish people don't care enough about the Irish language to revive it.
I'm glad that the current Taoiseach of the ROI doesn't agree with you.
I can't imagine Maltese/Malti would become extinct completely, though many are already worried about the bastardisation of the language. The problem is that because for so long Maltese wasn't an official language, & it was seen as a "kitchen language" that the lower classes would use, when it was re-instated as an official language there were many words which there was no Maltese equivalent. So instead many English & Italian words were used, which gave a strange mix. In recent years they have been trying to make up new words for certain things but in most cases they started doing something completely ridiculous, that is changing the spelling of English words thus creating a Maltese word, that is simply spelt phonetically, how a Maltese person would pronounce it
For example:
Handbag is Hendbeg
Fuel is Fjuwil
Bicycle is Bajsikil
Roundabout is Rawndebawt
Mobile is Mawbajl
Cash is Kexx
Baby is Bejbi
Rubbish is Rabix
These spellings are actually being taught in schools as well, which is leading to a huge problem in that people are now spelling many English words phonetically too & many are worried that one day hardly anyone will be able to spell Maltese OR English words correctly & the country may end up with a hybrid Maltenglish language...
Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78
True. I would be curious to know how many young Maltese speak English at home seeing that English is one of the official languages of Malta.
Many young Maltese speak English with their friends, but at home would likely speak Maltese with their parents. However most Maltese, not just the younger ones, choose to write in English over Maltese...
The PM of Malta actually only speaks to his children in English, as he knows full well for them to get anywhere in life they need to be fluent in English, Maltese is only going to be of use in Malta & even here pretty much every job requires you to speak English anyway. Which is rather hypocritical of him as when he was a EU MP he created a huge fuss that they didn't have a Maltese to English translator available for him, despite the fact he speaks fluent English himself & he went to Uni in the UK
There was another funny (embarrassing) incident at the Commonwealth Summit that was held in Malta in 2015 where he was addressing all the other Commonwealth heads, in Maltese, with a translator who wasn't as good at English as he was & who couldn't keep up so someone else had to step in rather than just speaking in English himself
Welsh isn't being revived, it's being maintained. The number of speakers has roughly been the same since 1981, which dramatically halted a serious decline that began in the early 20th century. Although it has a good platform since there's parts of the country, especially in the north west, where entire towns and villages live their lives through the medium of Welsh, even attending Welsh language schools.
Faroese is the everyday language of almost the entire population of the Faroe Islands, so it's pretty baffling that three people have voted for it in the poll...
Maltese: Not on the list (not in danger)
Faroese: Vulnerable
Irish Gaelic: Definitely Endangered
But even the "definitively endangered" Irish is pretty healthy, the number of speakers is growing (from a low base). Europe has relatively few languages (less than 300) compared with the rest of the world (Asia and Africa both have more than 2000), and they are relatively larger. From Ethnologue
Area of origin speakers: Mean / Median (in thousands)
Africa: 414 / 29
Americas: 48 / 1
Asia: 1,736 / 12
Europe: 5,981 / 36
Pacific: 5 / 1
World: 936 / 7
The mean is not important here, Asia and especially Europe has produced languages with a huge number of speakers (like English, Standard Chinese, Arabic, Spanish). The median matters (half the languages in the region have less and half have more speakers in the region). Extinction has gone further in Europe, most of the languages that remain are healthy. The median number of speakers of a language in the world today is 7,000. These three languages are well over that, they are also well over the European median of 36,400. They also have a well-developed support system. They are unlikely to go away soon. In the end though, it depends on how many children are going to learn those languages. Things may change a generation or two from now.
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