U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-23-2017, 01:41 PM
 
2,790 posts, read 2,772,123 times
Reputation: 4091

Advertisements

I think anyone who feels the E.U is a failed experiment needs to look eastwards - at India. It's very similar to the E.U, with constituent states that differ linguistically, politically, economically and culturally. Yet they manage to stay together as a country. They too suffer terrorist attacks bigger than those in the E.U and illegal immigration of so-called refugees (mostly from Bangladesh, and a few from Myanmar and Afghanistan). So how are they holding together? Because of a strong sense of national identity. If they can survive this way, then so can the E.U, even though it's a much more loose supranational union. The key therefore is to foster a strong sense of European identity, which many Europeans do have. Issues like terror, refugees and the economy are distractions. In fact, these should strengthen unity, not destroy it. The most important issue is identity. Only in this case, it's a sense of continental identity and not national identity (a minor technicality).

Opinions?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-23-2017, 01:46 PM
 
10,549 posts, read 9,167,439 times
Reputation: 7199
sorry, you are using the wrong example.

The EU already shares a common market. Different Indian provinces after so many years still don't even form a common market yet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2017, 01:47 PM
 
2,790 posts, read 2,772,123 times
Reputation: 4091
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
sorry, you are using the wrong example.

The EU already shares a common market. Different Indian provinces after so many years still don't even form a common market yet.
Then that strengthens my argument even further. They are even more united than the Indian states.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2017, 01:54 PM
 
10,549 posts, read 9,167,439 times
Reputation: 7199
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_gardener View Post
Then that strengthens my argument even further. They are even more united than the Indian states.
Don't get me wrong, I really hope EU will be a success, but they really need to work on how the union works. without some sort of adjustment, it will collapse sooner or later.

Currently, it is basically Germany gets most of the benefit at the cost of everyone else. (those who think Germany "sacrificed" should really try to learn a lot more about this matter).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2017, 02:36 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
8,481 posts, read 6,662,677 times
Reputation: 9227
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_gardener View Post
I think anyone who feels the E.U is a failed experiment needs to look eastwards - at India. It's very similar to the E.U, with constituent states that differ linguistically, politically, economically and culturally. Yet they manage to stay together as a country. They too suffer terrorist attacks bigger than those in the E.U and illegal immigration of so-called refugees (mostly from Bangladesh, and a few from Myanmar and Afghanistan). So how are they holding together? Because of a strong sense of national identity. If they can survive this way, then so can the E.U, even though it's a much more loose supranational union. The key therefore is to foster a strong sense of European identity, which many Europeans do have. Issues like terror, refugees and the economy are distractions. In fact, these should strengthen unity, not destroy it. The most important issue is identity. Only in this case, it's a sense of continental identity and not national identity (a minor technicality).

Opinions?
First of all, India is far more diverse, ethnically, socially, politically,etc than the EU. The central government is comparatively weak compared to state governments for good reason, aside from corruption. Large portions of East India are ungovernable by the state. If the national government tried to act as the EC in terms of internal regulation (i.e., homogenization), compliance would be low to non-existent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-26-2017, 05:55 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
5,591 posts, read 9,341,911 times
Reputation: 4176
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_gardener View Post
The most important issue is identity. Only in this case, it's a sense of continental identity and not national identity (a minor technicality).

Opinions?
This minor technicality may take several generations to work itself out.

In my view, the major driving force behind the EU (leading up to 1992 and into the euro) was that the alternatives were worse. And the same motivation is keeping them together now.

I don't see any relief in sight for the Mediterranean European countries, but I don't see the core European countries cutting them off either.

Barring some combination of astounding political upsets, a severe loss in a major war, or change in demographic and cultural balance by whatever means (we saw that film before), I see them muddling along with an unstable identity for at least another two or three generations.

Good Luck!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-26-2017, 12:30 PM
 
Location: France
7,995 posts, read 5,485,699 times
Reputation: 3157
The discussion about India has been moved there:
The partition of India
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2017, 01:16 PM
 
211 posts, read 69,615 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_gardener View Post
I think anyone who feels the E.U is a failed experiment needs to look eastwards - at India. It's very similar to the E.U, with constituent states that differ linguistically, politically, economically and culturally. Yet they manage to stay together as a country. They too suffer terrorist attacks bigger than those in the E.U and illegal immigration of so-called refugees (mostly from Bangladesh, and a few from Myanmar and Afghanistan). So how are they holding together? Because of a strong sense of national identity. If they can survive this way, then so can the E.U, even though it's a much more loose supranational union. The key therefore is to foster a strong sense of European identity, which many Europeans do have. Issues like terror, refugees and the economy are distractions. In fact, these should strengthen unity, not destroy it. The most important issue is identity. Only in this case, it's a sense of continental identity and not national identity (a minor technicality).

Opinions?
I agree with you. The only connection strong enough to hold people together is national identity. And that's where UE is failing. The UE is not and will never be a nation in spite of repeated efforts at breaking nationalities to build a new continental identity. At the end of the day each country only pushes for its own interests. It was very much the same situation in the USSR and it failed. The UE is failing in that aspect too. The UE is a liberal diktat.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2017, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Turku, Finland
23,765 posts, read 15,106,608 times
Reputation: 10593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebaruna View Post
I agree with you. The only connection strong enough to hold people together is national identity. And that's where UE is failing. The UE is not and will never be a nation in spite of repeated efforts at breaking nationalities to build a new continental identity. At the end of the day each country only pushes for its own interests. It was very much the same situation in the USSR and it failed. The UE is failing in that aspect too. The UE is a liberal diktat.
The EU doesn't want to erase national identities. It wants a common European identity to exist alongside the national identity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2017, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Russia
3,456 posts, read 1,704,264 times
Reputation: 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebaruna View Post
I agree with you. The only connection strong enough to hold people together is national identity. And that's where UE is failing. The UE is not and will never be a nation in spite of repeated efforts at breaking nationalities to build a new continental identity. At the end of the day each country only pushes for its own interests. It was very much the same situation in the USSR and it failed. The UE is failing in that aspect too. The UE is a liberal diktat.
France, Germany, Russian Empire (and Russian Federation now), other countries have successfully solved this problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top