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Old 07-07-2017, 08:07 PM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,613,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razza94 View Post
I agree, it's an unsustainable situation that helps neither continent. The real solution is to treat the problem at source by helping to develop Africa. In fairness, this has always been Bill Gates's mission.
Agreed. This isn't about race, it's about reality. By 2050 Africa will have well over 2 billion people. You simply can't have that many people rushing into a continent 1/10 it's [Africa's] size. Not to mention it would completely trash Africa's human and economic development since all of it's most talented, educated and probably most of it's culture generators would be the ones to flee and leave the most vulnerable behind. Both European and African cultures would be at risk of melting away.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hightower72 View Post
It's worth pointing out that Bill Gates has previously praised the immigration policies of Germany and Sweden:

Bill Gates: US 'should take more' refugees - BBC News

So many are claiming that his latest remarks are a U-turn on his previous statements.

Bill Gates in HUGE borders U-turn: EU must make it harder for migrants | World | News | Express.co.uk
As an American, we should do more since we have more land and resources than Europe. Also, we are a immigrant nation that can absorb new cultures without the complexities of pre-existing ones. Of course, we can't take everyone in either.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Helping Africa develop so that people stay there is easier said than done. Most of Africa is lagging behind so far, I think the gap is actually growing rather than shrinking, not least thanks to digital divide.

From an African's perspective life there is basically hopeless. There are so many problems, like corruption, looming civil wars, lack of electricity, sanitation, social security, etc. I wouldn't know where to start, frankly.

The Chinese are probably the only ones really investing in Africa, albeit not for altruistic reasons, of course. The EU on the other hand pretends to help, but at the same time EU politics on trade, agriculture, etc. are doing exactly the opposite. They are destroying local markets and driving Africans deeper and deeper into poverty. And the reason is obvious: nobody outside Africa gives a damn about Africans, at best they see it as a potential market for their exports, but they don't even want Africa to catch up big time as it might turn into competition the way China and India have done.

Then there is also that romantic idea in many Westerners that Africa has to be turned into a living museum, you know, huge safari lands with lions, crocodiles and all such beasts, while we have long destroyed most nature in the West. And Europe has been doing fine without wild nature, we have our human landscapes, so why should Africans declare vast parts of their continent natural parks?

Another problem is brain drain. If we really wanted to help Africa, we would not allow any educated Africans to stay outside Africa after they are finished attending colleges around the world. We should send them back, equipped with entrepreneurial skills and access to a huge global fund for business founders.
Instead, US and European companies are stealing the brightest minds from Africa by offering them jobs in the West.
No one said it was/would be "easy". Nothing worth doing ever is. However, it's the only real solution. Also, consider that Europe was rubble in 1945 and East Asia (except Japan, which was rubble) basically was a rural backwater in 1950 and look where they are now, and that's w/o Africa's natural resources.
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:10 PM
 
22 posts, read 74,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
As an American, we should do more since we have more land and resources than Europe. Also, we are a immigrant nation that can absorb new cultures without the complexities of pre-existing ones. Of course, we can't take everyone in either.

Americans give billions in foreign aid to Africa annually. In fact the USA gives by far the most and this is true without even including the aid of many philanthropic Americans like Bill Gates.


I think Africa needs partners who are willing to work strategically alongside ethical and well intended African leaders. Money helps but only with a good strategy and intentions for its use.

I don't think drawing out the best of the continent's populations and setting them up in the USA has any long term benefit for Africa.
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vendela View Post
Americans give billions in foreign aid to Africa annually. In fact the USA gives by far the most and this is true without even including the aid of many philanthropic Americans like Bill Gates.


I think Africa needs partners who are willing to work strategically alongside ethical and well intended African leaders. Money helps but only with a good strategy and intentions for its use.

I don't think drawing out the best of the continent's populations and setting them up in the USA has any long term benefit for Africa.
Africa needs to develop from within. Aid is a good startup, it cannot go the whole way. There needs to be investment in infrastructure and education to support the local population.

As to your second point, most people are drawn by opportunity, therefore if it can be found elsewhere they will shift to that place.
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Old 07-08-2017, 05:25 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,724,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
The Chinese are probably the only ones really investing in Africa, albeit not for altruistic reasons, of course. The EU on the other hand pretends to help, but at the same time EU politics on trade, agriculture, etc. are doing exactly the opposite. They are destroying local markets and driving Africans deeper and deeper into poverty. And the reason is obvious: nobody outside Africa gives a damn about Africans, at best they see it as a potential market for their exports, but they don't even want Africa to catch up big time as it might turn into competition the way China and India have done.

Then there is also that romantic idea in many Westerners that Africa has to be turned into a living museum, you know, huge safari lands with lions, crocodiles and all such beasts, while we have long destroyed most nature in the West. And Europe has been doing fine without wild nature, we have our human landscapes, so why should Africans declare vast parts of their continent natural parks?

.
Great analysis.

While the Chinese was building roads and bridges, western media commented sourly that "the Chinese is just exploiting Africa for its natural resources".

What stupid and arrogant comments, especially coming from some British newspaper... exploiting! they are definitely the expert. So the Chinese should invest without expecting any return? Yeah, this is why BP is investing everywhere not expecting any natural resources?

you are absolutely right the west fear Africa might rise. They hate the fact that China and India are competing for resources. They prefer Africa remain primitive forever. Africa doesnt need to "preserve its beautiful widerness". It needs to grow rapidly and have shopping malls, drive cars and live a better life.
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Old 07-08-2017, 05:26 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,724,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
As an American, we should do more since we have more land and resources than Europe. Also, we are a immigrant nation that can absorb new cultures without the complexities of pre-existing ones. Of course, we can't take everyone in either.
America should do more because it created the mess in the first place. When you bomb a countries into chaos and create refugees, you should accept most of the them.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:25 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,742,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
No one said it was/would be "easy". Nothing worth doing ever is. However, it's the only real solution. Also, consider that Europe was rubble in 1945 and East Asia (except Japan, which was rubble) basically was a rural backwater in 1950 and look where they are now, and that's w/o Africa's natural resources.
I think there is a major difference: Germany and Japan were highly developed before the war, they have a history of engineering etc. That knowledge and awareness were still there even when those countries were in rubble. People still had the memories of what their countries used to be, so they could rebuild them with that in mind. People still knew how to run schools, companies, government, etc.

Africa on the other hand does not have such a culture and history to build on. So, development has to be done from scratch in many areas, which is expensive and takes a lot of time. And of course the leading countries have long made sure that newcomers have a hard time catching up. Just think of the copyright and patent mania.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:52 AM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,613,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I think there is a major difference: Germany and Japan were highly developed before the war, they have a history of engineering etc. That knowledge and awareness were still there even when those countries were in rubble. People still had the memories of what their countries used to be, so they could rebuild them with that in mind. People still knew how to run schools, companies, government, etc.

Africa on the other hand does not have such a culture and history to build on. So, development has to be done from scratch in many areas, which is expensive and takes a lot of time. And of course the leading countries have long made sure that newcomers have a hard time catching up. Just think of the copyright and patent mania.
They can draw from their sizable Diasporas that have rooted in Europe and the US. Africa, for anything, would have the benefit of seeing how Asia and Europe got it back together as an example instead of having to "figure it all out".

What holds Africa back is 1)Ethnic strife. People need to learn to live with one another 2)Law and Order, 3)Good Governance. Remove those three and Africa can soar.
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:55 AM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,613,160 times
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
America should do more because it created the mess in the first place. When you bomb a countries into chaos and create refugees, you should accept most of the them.
You mean Gaddafi who bombed his own people or Assad who is still doing the same? The west isn't to blame for everything.
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