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And people from those societies are now in Europe, and there's now terrorism in Europe that was unknown before. It's not difficult to do the math.
True that there wasn't previously any Salafist Islamic terrorism in Europe, but terrorism as a concept has been in Europe forever. One terrorist even started WWI.
But that's irrelevant. An ISIS terrorist can come as a tourist to Europe and blow himself up. Just like they did in Munich in 1972.
I notice you didn't mention the treatment of women. It is the governments (the men) in power who make the rules on how much freedom women have in those countries. They are not a small minority. They are the rulers. Also, big money from Gulf countries funds extremist groups. Also not a minority.
So, you're going to blame the West. In your view, it seems the people in the Middle East have no responsibility for themselves. They had independence after WWII. Iraq was a dictatorship long after Britain and France divided up the region. Algeria fought a bloody civil war in the 1990s, decades after the French left.
As counter examples, Japan was invaded by the U.S.A. during WWII, and after a few years they rebuilt and created a strong and stable society. China also was colonized in part by Britain and are doing well now.
It's been over a decade since the US invaded Iraq. France/Britain/the USA are not forcing them to fight today. They could make peace, but they haven't. But the Middle East just continues to be unstable decade after decade.
And people from those societies are now in Europe, and there's now terrorism in Europe that was unknown before. It's not difficult to do the math.
True that there wasn't previously any Salafist Islamic terrorism in Europe, but terrorism as a concept has been in Europe forever. One terrorist even started WWI.
But that's irrelevant. An ISIS terrorist can come as a tourist to Europe and blow himself up. Just like they did in Munich in 1972.
Okay, fine, that statement was wrong. Obviously, there was terrorism in many places in Europe throughout history. It's late, and this is an internet BB, not a political science journal.
Refugees are real, and they are mainly from Syria. If they are fleeing certain death in war, then what they need is a safe place, right? Turkey/Lebanon/Bulgaria/Greece/etc would be fine, as they are safe countries. But the benefits/economic prospects there are not so good, so they continue north to Germany/Sweden.
And the fact is the vast majority of "refugees" are economic migrants. They are young men looking for money and jobs. And some of them came to Europe and committed attacks (some of the French or Belgian ones I believe). So the EU is making a big mistake by letting them all in I would argue.
Last edited by Jourennacht; 09-24-2017 at 06:28 PM..
But that's irrelevant. An ISIS terrorist can come as a tourist to Europe and blow himself up. Just like they did in Munich in 1972.
Not exactly. It takes a network of terrorists, working together over years to plan a serious terrorist attack (like the one in Paris that killed 130 people). Some of them live in Europe, and have safe houses, supply lines for weapons etc. Others are trained/brainwashed to pull off the actual attack. You think someone will just fly into Zaventem in Brussels with a bag full of explosives and an AK-47 and then go do an attack?
They only do the trucks because they can't get the guns/bombs. And even that probably requires some kind of EU identification to rent (now).
Last edited by Jourennacht; 09-24-2017 at 06:14 PM..
Not exactly. It takes a network of terrorists, working together over years to plan a serious terrorist attack (like the one in Paris that killed 130 people). Some of them live in Europe, and have safe houses, supply lines for weapons etc. Others are trained/brainwashed to pull off the actual attack. You think someone will just fly into Zaventem in Brussels with a bag full of explosives and an AK-47 and then go do an attack?
They only do the trucks because they can't get the guns/bombs. And even that probably requires some kind of EU identification to rent (now).
Stealing a lorry isn't that hard, that's what the Christmas market terrorist did. And the one which happened where I live, they guy stole a kitchen knife and started stabbing people on the street.
Stealing a lorry isn't that hard, that's what the Christmas market terrorist did. And the one which happened where I live, they guy stole a kitchen knife and started stabbing people on the street.
So are you of the "terrorism is inevitable, let's all learn to live with it" school of thought? I think the nations and EU could do more. A good start would be to cut down on the amount of migrants coming into the EU from outside.
Last time I checked, IOM (UN agency) said 131,000 migrants came into Europe via the Mediterranean route since January 2017. Very few controls, they just land on Lampedusa, get fingerprinted, then head north to their destination of choice. A bad system IMHO, and its not even real refugees 90%+ of the time.
The war is certainly triggered by what the west has done for centuries. No doubt about that. Syria, Iraq or Libia are not even "actual" countries to begin with but political constructions in favor of the west.
How do you define what an "actual country" is, since all of them are artificial constructs to begin with?
Muslim extremists would love to have all those countries under a single caliphate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jourennacht
So are you of the "terrorism is inevitable, let's all learn to live with it" school of thought? I think the nations and EU could do more. A good start would be to cut down on the amount of migrants coming into the EU from outside.
Last time I checked, IOM (UN agency) said 131,000 migrants came into Europe via the Mediterranean route since January 2017. Very few controls, they just land on Lampedusa, get fingerprinted, then head north to their destination of choice. A bad system IMHO, and its not even real refugees 90%+ of the time.
I don't think terrorism should be tolerated, but the majority of acts that were committed over the past few years have been perpetrated by Muslims that were citizens of their respective country.
Syrians are hardly the dominant migrant force in Europe.
the majority of acts that were committed over the past few years have been perpetrated by Muslims that were citizens of their respective country.
Syrians are hardly the dominant migrant force in Europe.
True, it's often citizens of European countries, people born and educated there, who are committing many of the attacks.
But think, if even citizens aren't integrated enough to avoid doing mass terror in their European country of birth, how much chance do foreigners have of assimilating properly?
I think it is a mistake to make the connection between migration and terrorism.
Islamist terrorism is global and concerns all countries in connection with the Middle East. In France the terrosists were sometimes 4th generation of immigrants and the radicalization was done mainly by Internet.
Stopping the attacks by closing the borders is an illusion, the Islamic ideology has no boundaries.
And I think the situation is worsening, with the demographics of Africa combined with climate warming, 500 million Africans will come to knock at the gates of europe in the next 30 years.
Unless you buy 5000 Airbus A380 to evict them every day, good luck!
I notice you didn't mention the treatment of women. It is the governments (the men) in power who make the rules on how much freedom women have in those countries. They are not a small minority. They are the rulers. Also, big money from Gulf countries funds extremist groups. Also not a minority.
So, you're going to blame the West. In your view, it seems the people in the Middle East have no responsibility for themselves. They had independence after WWII. Iraq was a dictatorship long after Britain and France divided up the region. Algeria fought a bloody civil war in the 1990s, decades after the French left.
As counter examples, Japan was invaded by the U.S.A. during WWII, and after a few years they rebuilt and created a strong and stable society. China also was colonized in part by Britain and are doing well now.
It's been over a decade since the US invaded Iraq. France/Britain/the USA are not forcing them to fight today. They could make peace, but they haven't. But the Middle East just continues to be unstable decade after decade.
And people from those societies are now in Europe, and there's now terrorism in Europe that was unknown before. It's not difficult to do the math.
The treatment of woman argument always comes back. As if sexual discrimination did not exist here. Sure yeah there are no burqas here but then just look at Europe 100 years ago and tell me women were equal to men. Of course it's better now, but don't you think it is gonna change everywhere ? Also, ever heard of female kurdish fighters ?
Of course the west is responsible. France and England shared the middle east for oil extraction regardless of local ethnicities, creating fake states and putting dictators. Still the ressources are exploited by foreign companies with very little benefit for the locals. If people really wanted these dictators they would not flee en masse like this girl in the video.
What do you think should happen then ? The west should invade these countries again ?
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