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Yes, there are a few differnces indeed. Spain is certainly now democracy, as Franco is dead and I believe he never was as harsh as Stalin. But the occupation- since when it starts, i mean the use of the terms of occupation or incorporation? wasn't Catalonia incorporated by Spain too, although just centuries ago and not in during II WW? And anyway, Catalonia is opressed by Spain, at least they feel it so.
Nothing to do. Catalonia was part of the kingdom of Aragon, that became a federation with Castile in 1492.
Fernando or Ferdinand, king of Aragon, marrried Isabela, queen of Castile and both kingdoms became a federation in 1492 - the same year that America was discovered, Jews expelled and Granada conquered.
Aragon, in which Catalonia was included, was practically an independent kingdom even considering that they were part of the federation until 1715. (Bourbons, which were centralist, considered modern by that time).
Franco favoured Catalans with vast public investments, he forbade the public use of the language during some 30 years...but all Catalans spoke Catalan.
Franco was kind of tought during the 40's, but he changed in 1959 - Eisenhower visit) and became a freer, more tolerant country that grew 25 percent each year thanks to industry and tourism. The only thing that was a real ***** here was the church. When Franco died in 1975, the country was practically a democracy.
One of the reasons why Franco won was Stalin's help.....Stalin cut help and weapons to Spain when he saw that anarchists had too much control..he said..."I prefer Franco to anarchists".
Last edited by farinello; 10-06-2017 at 04:05 AM..
This from a study done by ING, Dutch bank, on the impact of Catalan secession:
"Most foreign companies, as well as Catalan ones, fear falling out of the European single market," Minne [bank spokesperson] wrote. "A consequence would be that investment could be delayed or redirected outside the region."
"Probably the most impacted companies are those exporting to the EU. The EU accounted for 65% of exports and 70% of foreign investment in Catalonia over the last three years."
A second bank has already made comments that indicate that it is looking to move its headquarters, and a bio-science company is leaving as well.
It looks like as the political players are having their day on stage, the folks with the money are giving the really worrying signs about the future.
Perhaps it would have been - or still could be - helpful if some major CEO's starting speaking up in an effort to calm the situation down for actual discussion.
Catalan independency is a laugh, a chimera. Everybody is waiting for the coyote to fall down the cliff.
La Caixa is Catalonia.
The problem is not independence, which is impossible, the problem are next autonomical elections that could be won by very radical political parties that would destroy the economy.
Catalan independency is a laugh, a chimera. Everybody is waiting for the coyote to fall down the cliff.
La Caixa is Catalonia.
The problem is not independence, which is impossible, the problem are next autonomical elections that could be won by very radical political parties that would destroy the economy.
Catalan's independence is no more nor less laughable than the America's independence.
Catalan independency is a laugh, a chimera. Everybody is waiting for the coyote to fall down the cliff.
La Caixa is Catalonia.
The problem is not independence, which is impossible, the problem are next autonomical elections that could be won by very radical political parties that would destroy the economy.
Get off the high horse. What is your problem with Catalonia
Again, not an ethnic problem as the French Canadian one. It's more about money, in fact, it's all about money.
To put it in another way, ethnic Catalans are mostly bourgeois, as such, cowards and against adventures, bourgeois might meow, play the blind chicken, but NO MORE.
Most RADICALS pushing for DUI -independence- are immigrants.
Just as during the war, 1936, Franco did not take Barcelona and Catalonia because immigrants, not because Catalans, that are pactists, Catalans don't fight...just make money.
Without so many Spanish immigrants, Catalonia would be like Mallorca or Valencia - rightist, españolistas.
These are the same arguments invoking money that I've heard all over the world against independence movements...
Group X only wants independence because they want everyone to pay for them and don't want to work, blablabla...
BTW, I am not for or against Catalan independence. But I do think they should be free to decide and do think they fall into the category of a "people", as much as any other group out there.
I would like to see Catalonia be able to vote for it's future. I don't see why the rest of the Spanish population should have a say either. And after what I saw this past week. I hope the become independent and successful.
I totally disagree.
Democracy and freedom. The whole idea is that we are able to speak our minds and be able to live with and respect people from different races, cultures and religions. It is not so wealthy parts of Democracies can break off from the poorer parts of the nation because of minor cultural differences and frivolous nationalistic reasons.
Obviously the Spanish government have handled this very badly and the violence has obscured some of the other issues.
First, the Spanish people voted heavily (90%) in favor of a constitution. Now, the Catalan separatists want to ignore the constitution everyone voted for because it doesn't suit their purpose.
Second, the Catalan separatists ignored their own parliamentary rules in calling a referendum. The referendum was not only illegal at the Spanish level but also at the Catalan level.
Third, the Catalan separatists ignored the ruling of the Constitutional Court and went ahead anyway.
It would appear that the rule of law only applies to the separatists when it suits their purpose.
Fourth, when the referendum did go ahead, it was rife with electoral abuse and less than 50% of the electorate actually voted. It was a mockery of due process. Despite this, the separatists think that they have a mandate for UDI. How any sane person could support this is beyond me but the separatists are living in their own fantasy world.
Democracy and freedom. The whole idea is that we are able to speak our minds and be able to live with and respect people from different races, cultures and religions. It is not so wealthy parts of Democracies can break off from the poorer parts of the nation because of minor cultural differences and frivolous nationalistic reasons.
I am reminded that extremely few countries have obtained their independence when the motivations are primarily financial. When independence happens, it's always for cultural, religious, linguistic, ethnic reasons. Not money.
Democracy and freedom. The whole idea is that we are able to speak our minds and be able to live with and respect people from different races, cultures and religions. It is not so wealthy parts of Democracies can break off from the poorer parts of the nation because of minor cultural differences and frivolous nationalistic reasons.
I'm not going to act like I understand the details about this situation but I disagree. They want to vote, a same democratic society would allow it.
You hypocritically say that they should be about to speak their minds but don't want to allow them a vote? Is that correct?
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