Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-10-2017, 08:17 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,641,794 times
Reputation: 7872

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
You are not a moderator here, and my answer was in respect to something stated about the UK, a country which is in Europe.

Europe is a geographic entity, the EU is merely a political and trading organisation. There are a number of European countries who are not part of the EU and this is a European subforum and not an EU subforum.
but the topic is "France to push for a Eurozone to integrate". So naturally this has nothing to do with the UK, or any non-EU european countries, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-10-2017, 08:22 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,641,794 times
Reputation: 7872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Who said?
Eurosceptics before the Euro zone was created. Are you saying none did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Who will start?
Isn't the OP about what you asked? Why bother ask. If you are not up for it, plenty of others are.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2017, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,144 posts, read 24,675,564 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
The UK has left the EU for numerous reasons, as for our borders even without Schengen anyone from within the EU could come here to live including criminal gangs, pickpokets and other undesirables as well as those who just wished to milk the benefit system. After Brexit we will still let people with valued skills come here to live and work but will be able to refuse entry to those who are not going to contribute to our society.
This really doesn't make any sense.

So, despite the UK not being a part of Schengen "undesirables" came to the country, but now when Britain is leaving the EU (but not Schengen, as it wasn't a part of it anyway), "undesirables" can't go to Britain anymore because of... what exactly? Magic?

It's like saying that Venezuela is no longer an US ally because it left NATO and now can do what it pleases, though it was never a part of the alliance in the first place!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2017, 08:57 AM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,480,577 times
Reputation: 15498
Quote:
Originally Posted by treblenotdouble View Post
Jumping the gun here

This will likely occur in a couple hundred years when the majority of Europeans have mixed heritage and the culture has taken on Americanism [how splendid this all sounds]. For example in my extended family there is a sweet young girl with Turkish father (German born), Polish mother and they live in Germany. What will this child self identity as? I imagine European first. This (for better & worse) is the future of Europe. That is when Europe will become the United States of Europe.

German "Presidential" nominee Martin Schulz recently also spoke in favor of United States of Europe. But at this given time are they purposely trying to fuel far-right sentiment? The EU is possibly facing it's greatest inner opposition and these people are publicly preaching for even more unification? Absurd. But it illustrates the arrogance of politicians in Europe, especially in Brussels. So out of touch with the needs and worries of the common European.
doubt that happens without fighting, the us colonies tried a few failed attempts before coming to the idea of the current us. involving a civil war

china unified itself after hundreds of years of fighting

european history is too formed by countries that i cant see them giving up that identity, even if the EU generation identifies themselves as "european"

waiting to see how this plays out, the current younger generations are the ones that grew up after EU, so they dont know what it was like before EU.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2017, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,144 posts, read 24,675,564 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Eurosceptics before the Euro zone was created. Are you saying none did?
And in what Eurozone country were the eurosceptics the majority?

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Isn't the OP about what you asked? Why bother ask. If you are not up for it, plenty of others are.
Where in that OP's news article did it say that the nation states of Europe should be dismantled? The rest was only the OP's misleading speculation and deliberately misreading Le Maire's statement.

Just because Le Maire and the OP says something doesn't mean it will happen. People say all kind of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
european history is too formed by countries that i cant see them giving up that identity, even if the EU generation identifies themselves as "european"

waiting to see how this plays out, the current younger generations are the ones that grew up after EU, so they dont know what it was like before EU.
I can't see it either. And the younger generations don't identify themselves as 'stateless Europeans'. They identify as French, German, Dutch, Spanish, Croatian, Danish and so on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2017, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,933 posts, read 13,160,990 times
Reputation: 19164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
This really doesn't make any sense.

So, despite the UK not being a part of Schengen "undesirables" came to the country, but now when Britain is leaving the EU (but not Schengen, as it wasn't a part of it anyway), "undesirables" can't go to Britain anymore because of... what exactly? Magic?

It's like saying that Venezuela is no longer an US ally because it left NATO and now can do what it pleases, though it was never a part of the alliance in the first place!
Being part of the EU meant people from across Europe could come and live in the UK regardless of previous crimes or suitability for work, it was nothing to do with Schengen.

The Schengen Agreement was only about doing away with border checks, which proved very handy for terrorists, membership of the EU itself meant that people could live, work or claim benefits in the UK.

Even though Britain still carried out border checks, all EU Citizens had a right to live, work, claim benefits etc in the UK and that included many criminals and undesirables. We could check their passports but could not refuse them entry, although under Schengen we wouldn't have even checked their passports.

You do understand what the EU is and the principles behind it and what being a member of it means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
but the topic is "France to push for a Eurozone to integrate". So naturally this has nothing to do with the UK, or any non-EU european countries, right?
Regardless of the topic if someone starts making assertions about the EU then people from the UK are going to answer.

If you don't want us to answer then don't start making accusations regarding the UK.

Last edited by Brave New World; 12-10-2017 at 01:37 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2017, 03:29 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,448,633 times
Reputation: 5030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
You are not a moderator here, and my answer was in respect to something stated about the UK, a country which is in Europe.

Europe is a geographic entity, the EU is merely a political and trading organisation. There are a number of European countries who are not part of the EU and this is a European subforum and not an EU subforum.
Exactly. The UK will always be part of the European continent (well at least until major continental shifts take place in millions of years ), regardless of political or economic alliances.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2017, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,144 posts, read 24,675,564 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Being part of the EU meant people from across Europe could come and live in the UK regardless of previous crimes or suitability for work, it was nothing to do with Schengen.

The Schengen Agreement was only about doing away with border checks, which proved very handy for terrorists, membership of the EU itself meant that people could live, work or claim benefits in the UK.

Even though Britain still carried out border checks, all EU Citizens had a right to live, work, claim benefits etc in the UK and that included many criminals and undesirables. We could check their passports but could not refuse them entry, although under Schengen we wouldn't have even checked their passports.

You do understand what the EU is and the principles behind it and what being a member of it means.
You still don't make any sense.

Britain was not in Schengen, so it could and can carry out border checks, regardless of being a part of the EU or not. Secondly, the Schengen area will still exist, just because Britain leaves the EU doesn't mean that border checks within the EU changes a single bit.

Yes, work and live was a right, and Britain benefited a lot from it. It's a myth that EU immigrants would be any kind of burden: https://www.ft.com/content/520f183e-...4-d0c17942ba93
But of course it's your right to throw them away, but that would be shooting yourself in the foot.

The EU never has forced Britain to allow entry or residence of criminals, terrorists and other undesirables. For example Finland (in Schengen) throw out Baltic criminals and Dutch drug gang members all the time.

Criminals and terrorists don't care about the law. That's the whole definition of the noun criminal. Do you think the terrorists will rethink now that "hey, we don't have a legal right to be here, let's go home"?

You are saying "The EU doesn't allow us to build a castle (though it's not true). Now when we leave the EU, we can build that castle (you could before as well), but we aren't building it, we just say to the HRE princes that please don't bring your siege engines, because it's against the law".

Come on, you're smarter than this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2017, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,933 posts, read 13,160,990 times
Reputation: 19164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
You still don't make any sense.

Britain was not in Schengen, so it could and can carry out border checks, regardless of being a part of the EU or not. Secondly, the Schengen area will still exist, just because Britain leaves the EU doesn't mean that border checks within the EU changes a single bit.

Yes, work and live was a right, and Britain benefited a lot from it. It's a myth that EU immigrants would be any kind of burden: https://www.ft.com/content/520f183e-...4-d0c17942ba93
But of course it's your right to throw them away, but that would be shooting yourself in the foot.

The EU never has forced Britain to allow entry or residence of criminals, terrorists and other undesirables. For example Finland (in Schengen) throw out Baltic criminals and Dutch drug gang members all the time.

Criminals and terrorists don't care about the law. That's the whole definition of the noun criminal. Do you think the terrorists will rethink now that "hey, we don't have a legal right to be here, let's go home"?

You are saying "The EU doesn't allow us to build a castle (though it's not true). Now when we leave the EU, we can build that castle (you could before as well), but we aren't building it, we just say to the HRE princes that please don't bring your siege engines, because it's against the law".

Come on, you're smarter than this.
Border checks are pointless unless you can ban people who are undesirable and I don't subscribe to the view that mass immigration is great or that all immigrants are great.

Detective Chief Inspector Paul Barnard, then head of the Dedicated Card and Payment Crime Unit (DCPCU) - a national police unit run in partnership with the Financial Services Sector stated that "92 per cent of all ATM fraud we see in this country is committed by Romanian nationals."

Even the full facts website does not deny the fact or that a very high percentage of Romanians are arrested, often for Credit Card and ATM fraud as well as shoplifing and pickpoketing. Romanian pickpocket gangs are well known to the police in London and some other parts of the UK and indeed across Europe and especially in tourist areas. Bulgarian and other Eastern European gangs are also heavily involved.

Over 15% of prisoners in our jails are foreign, so that's around one in seven prisoners, and of those the largest nationality is polish followed by Romanians, Bulgarians and other East Europeans who have often been involved in serious organised crime and even murder. Whilst Eat European gangs account for a massive percentage opf pickpocketing, cash machine (ATM) fraud, begging and numerous other forms of unsavoury and criminal activity. Over the last decade offences have skyrocketed involving these groups, and there is even a massive waiting list to try and deport them, whilst lawyers try to use European Laws at British taxpayers expense to try to halt deportations.

DCPCU

Detective Chief Superintendent Paul Barnard - ASIS Conference 2017

Over here and under arrest: are Romanians responsible for 90% of ATM crime? - Full Facts

London's Romanian Gypsy Invasion | British GQ

Number of Romanians and Bulgarians in UK rises to 413,000 | Guardian

Romanian police tackle West End begging gangs - BBC News

Romanian pickpocket gang used money to finance mansions - BBC News

Romanian gangs 'looting lorries from moving cars' - Telegraph

Cops brace for gang war after followers of a slain Romanian mobster

Polish Criminal gangs lure migrants to UK for benefit fraud - BBC News

Polish gang who attacked professor had criminal records in home country - Telegraph

Alice Gross inquest: Convicted Latvian killer 'walked into Britain

You wonder why people voted Brexit then look no further than some of these criminal gangs.

Last edited by Brave New World; 12-11-2017 at 06:04 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2017, 06:05 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,309 posts, read 14,203,622 times
Reputation: 10017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
... UK, a country which is in Europe.

Europe is a geographic entity, the EU is merely a political and trading organisation. There are a number of European countries who are not part of the EU and this is a European subforum and not an EU subforum. ...
For centuries there has been no agreement, and plenty of fighting, over what exactly "Europe" is or isn't.

Nowadays the closest thing to an "official" definition is European Union.

Like it or not, that burgeoning entity is "usurping" the name.

Obviously the fight ain't over. It's like a kaleidoscope.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top