U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 01-06-2018, 01:12 PM
 
160 posts, read 86,704 times
Reputation: 105

Advertisements

I was just wondering how much of an influence did the Spanish and Italian languages have on each other?

I did researched that after the roman empire fell, the Romance languages did branch off as French, Portuguese, Italian, Spanish and Romanian from them.

However, Spanish and Italian have a lot of similarities to each other in terms of pronunciations and for certain terms of the same meanings and sometimes they can be intelligible to each other on some aspects.

I did see some posts that although Italian and Spanish were already separate languages, one of them invaded the other and introduced their linguistic influence to each other including reintroducing variations of Latin words that already existed in their languages. I also found research Arabs invaded Spain and heavily influenced the Spanish language.

I also wonder if Arabic has any significant influence on Italian.

I saw some language comparisons on youtube of Spanish vs. Arabic and Italian vs. Arabic and it seems the comparisons were very similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOe4mkzBdCs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmBsgy9hKwI
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-07-2018, 04:04 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
5,959 posts, read 9,894,895 times
Reputation: 4619
This is not really the proper venue for such a scholarly discussion and for which there would be no easily agreed on objectively measurable answer.

Just a few general observations:

1) everything influences everything else (the box and chain thing);

2) Arabic-speaking peoples ruled significant chunks of Spain and Portugal, especially the south, for centuries, but not since more than 500 years ago, as well as Sicily for a couple centuries but not since around 1,000 years ago;

3) the Spanish crown or branches of it ruled significant chunks of Italy, especially the south, for centuries as recently as 160 years ago;

4) southern Italian is also influenced by Greek, Albanian, and a bit of Arabic in Sicily;

5) northern Italian, significant chunks of which ruled by various German and French-speaking powers at one time or another until around 150 years ago, is influenced by German, French and a bit of ancient Celtic;

6) it is possible to observe some Germanic and French influence in southern Italy and some Spanish influence in northern Italy: at one point or another, they all invaded each other, an incestuous bunch;

7) the above list of casual observations germane to the topic does not exhaust a list of any number of casual observations germane to the topic.

Just for fun, roughly speaking, Italian and Spanish pronunciation are almost the same, but the vocabulary matches only about 50-50, Spanish and Portuguese pronunciation are quite different, but the vocabulary matches probably around 90%-95%, French and Italian vocabulary match probably somewhere in between 50% and 90% but the pronunciation is quite different except maybe in the northwestern corner of Italy, Portuguese and French pronunciation both have a nasal tint to them, but aren't really similar, and all of them have quite similar grammars but each one has special features that require non-native speakers to devote time and energy to understand and master.

Finally, it is possible to isolate tiny, coincidental, anecdotal similarities between any two things or phenomena in nature and human experience and make a big deal out of them, even if they aren't, usually for the purpose of pursuing some kind of personal agenda or satisfying an idiosyncrasy.

Good Luck in your research.

Last edited by bale002; 01-07-2018 at 04:30 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2018, 04:25 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,216 posts, read 476,910 times
Reputation: 2324
New languages don't spring up de novo, but evolve out of the current language. In the days before mass communications and easy travel, geographic & cultural isolation lead to changes away from the standard dialect.

Linguistic laziness lead to the simplified grammar of the romance languages compared to the complex grammar with multiple case endings & verb declensions of Latin, for instance. We see this happening in "Ebonics" compared to American English today. The Italian vernacular was considered "low class," much like our southern dialects are looked down upon by the intelligentsia today, until Dante published The Inferno, establishing Italian as a legitimate language in its own right.

British, Canadian, Jamaican, Australian & American English were also evolving in different directions, although rapid, mass communications has slurred & slowed the differences.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2018, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 4710'N 025'E
2,805 posts, read 3,627,511 times
Reputation: 1792
Spanish and italian are not more similar together than they are to the other latin languages.

Italian actuzlly shares more with french in terms of lexical similarity than it does with Spanish.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2018, 08:09 AM
 
21,900 posts, read 15,120,460 times
Reputation: 7936
You don't just have "Spanish" and Italian.

Castilian is the official language of Spain. But Spain has multiple other regional languages. Galician, Occitan, Basque (not Latin based) Catalan, etc. Catalan is spoken in Northeastern Spain, parts of Southern France ,and Sardinia.

Occitan is spoken in Northern Italy, Southern France, and a part of Spain.

Sardinia and Sicily were parts of the Spanish empire for quite sometime, and they both speak pretty differently from those in Rome.

You've a number of what could be considered languages in their own right aside what it is considered Italian in Italy.

Of course there were linguistic influences these languages had on each other after the fall of the Roman Empire. Look at the distribution of both Catalan and Occitan.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2018, 02:39 PM
 
Location: The Great West
2,042 posts, read 1,813,679 times
Reputation: 3974
It's tough to quantify "how much" when it comes to linguistic influence, especially when you talk about Romance languages that all stem from Latin but have their own influences, as bale lined out nicely in his post.

And as Nywriterdude said as well, each of these countries not only have their own dialects but other languages, especially in Spain where they do not use the word "Spanish" to refer to that language at all. Having spent a lot of time in Basque Country I can tell you Castilian (castellano) influenced Basque (euskera) in vocabulary, but otherwise the languages are alien to each other. Castilian is more closely related to Galician (gallego) and Catalan, for example.

I am not sure what you mean by Arabic "heavily" influencing Castilian. The Arabs were gone from Spain completely during the reign of Fernando and Isabel and mainly they contributed vocabulary. Most words beginning with "al" in Castilian are Arab-based (almorzar, alcanzar etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
Just for fun, roughly speaking, Italian and Spanish pronunciation are almost the same, but the vocabulary matches only about 50-50, Spanish and Portuguese pronunciation are quite different, but the vocabulary matches probably around 90%-95% [...]
This was my experience in both Italy and Portugal. I understood approximately zero of what was said to me in Portuguese but was able to read most anything written in it.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-07-2018, 02:50 PM
 
88 posts, read 24,780 times
Reputation: 86
Linguistically speaking, isn't Italian closer to Romanian?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2018, 09:38 AM
 
422 posts, read 126,622 times
Reputation: 172
Phonetics, Italian is similar to Spanish...occitan, etc, according to phonetics.
So Portuguese may sound like Chinese to Spanish speakers, even if closer, tham Italian,
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2018, 10:07 AM
AFP
 
5,471 posts, read 3,294,078 times
Reputation: 4711
Quote:
Originally Posted by farinello View Post
Phonetics, Italian is similar to Spanish...occitan, etc, according to phonetics.
So Portuguese may sound like Chinese to Spanish speakers, even if closer, tham Italian,
The Portuguese of Lisbon doesn't sound the same as the Portuguese of the Alentejo, the Algarve, the Minho, Tras os Montes, Coimbra, Madeira, the Azores, etc. sometimes even traveling short distances there are differences especially in hilly lands. There seems to be quite a bit of overlap between some areas of North West Portugal and the border regions of Galicia.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top