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Old 10-03-2018, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,758 posts, read 37,656,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Well I guess if you look for something you will find it. Your experience is totally different than what Montreal is actually about, and totally different from anything that I have ever experienced in Montreal.

As for the electric scooters, you are assuming a lot. People use them because they do have a limited ability to walk, and it's used like an electric wheelchair, but is built for outdoor use. One reason you may not see them a lot in Europe is because imagine using one on uneven sidewalks or cobblestone ones. Also accessibility is more limited, especially in Italy. If I remember your transit buses don't accommodate wheelchairs?

So instead of assuming these people are just lazy and eat bad food, so use an expensive scooter to get around so much that they lose the ability to walk, you should of thought " wow, are we really behind in Italy, getting our handicapped people the infrastructure they need to get around ".

Someone in an electric scooter here can practically go anywhere using transit, or riding on the sidewalks in Canada.
Hochelaga-Maisonneuve does have a reputation for being *the* low-brow district in Montreal, even if it is gentrifying. A friend of mine lives there - in a renovated loft. It's rough around the edges but not especially dangerous.


It's not really typical Montreal though Montreal does have some other areas that are similar.


As for the scooters it sounds like it was perhaps an "epiphenomenon" that our friend was able to observe. A concentration of people on scooters at one specific time or in one specific area. They're not really widespread in Montreal - I go to HoMa a couple of times a year and have never noticed an abundance of people on scooters.


I should say that when I go to the U.S. I do notice more people riding around on scooters. Though moreso in the southern states than in the NE states closer to me.


There is actually a neighbourhood not too far from me here that is very similar to HoMa in Montreal on a socio-economic level. (I am actually going to run an errand there over the lunch hour.) I've never noticed an abundance of scooters there either. I probably won't even see any.
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,492 posts, read 15,344,864 times
Reputation: 11929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Hochelaga-Maisonneuve does have a reputation for being *the* low-brow district in Montreal, even if it is gentrifying. A friend of mine lives there - in a renovated loft. It's rough around the edges but not especially dangerous.


It's not really typical Montreal though Montreal does have some other areas that are similar.


As for the scooters it sounds like it was perhaps an "epiphenomenon" that our friend was able to observe. A concentration of people on scooters at one specific time or in one specific area. They're not really widespread in Montreal - I go to HoMa a couple of times a year and have never noticed an abundance of people on scooters.


I should say that when I go to the U.S. I do notice more people riding around on scooters. Though moreso in the southern states than in the NE states closer to me.


There is actually a neighbourhood not too far from me here that is very similar to HoMa in Montreal on a socio-economic level. (I am actually going to run an errand there over the lunch hour.) I've never noticed an abundance of scooters there either. I probably won't even see any.
Funny, I have a friend that lives in a converted loft there as well. Just beside HoMa. Bought it cheap a few years ago...an old shoe factory I believe. So I kind of know the area, although not well.

My point to the others, was not to assume why someone is using an apparatus to get around. Yes some become fatter when using them, and some may use them because they are fat and have walking issues, but many use them because they work better outside than most wheelchairs. My points about handicap access I still stand by.

In the US it may be a different story, I'm not sure, but they do have more morbidly obese people, and just plain people than we do, so you are going to most likely see more.
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:48 AM
 
24,508 posts, read 17,967,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikebxl View Post
Are you sure the USA gets "millions of immigrants from Europe" each year?

It is also an error to compare just money.

A person with 20k in the USA can be more miserable than a person with 20k in Spain for example. Because maybe for getting those 20k he has to work 2 jobs so maybe 12 hours working + 2 hours commuting + paying gas&car bills + paying healthcare, while in Spain with 20k you have your 9 to 5 work, you maybe don't own a car and you live like 20 mins walk from your office, and you don't have to pay for healthcare because it's already paid thru taxes...

What I am trying to say is that 20k number is not important. The important number is the amount of money you get to have at the end of the month after having to pay all your "musts" (housing, gas, cars, healthcare, education, etc) ---> And I think at that point, low class Americans get much less money than middle class Europeans, which was the original question.

It depends on where in the United States.


Where I live (Massachusetts), the minimum wage is $11/hour. You make $20K working 40-hour weeks. The minimum wage is going up to $15/hour over the next few years. If you work those 40-hour weeks, you make closer to $30K. Somebody making that kind of money is going to qualify for MassHealth, the Massachusetts name for Medicaid. Socialized medicine. You have access to world class health care though some physicians won't take Medicaid patients since they lose money on them.



In general, food and consumer goods are much less expensive in the United States. Certainly energy is cheaper. The biggest difference is public transportation. Other than a few cities where commuters use it, public transportation in the US is awful. If you're low income and can't afford a car, you are extremely limited unless you live in one of the few cities where you are fine without a car. You would need to share housing with room mates. It wouldn't be a luxurious life but you would do OK.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Bologna, Italy
7,501 posts, read 6,224,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
He does have a point there though. It's not disabled people riding these scooters but mainly obese lazy people who don't or can't walk anymore because of their weight issues. These people are less common in Italy compared to North America because Italians have a much more healthy lifestyle than Canadians and especially Americans. Not because there is no infrastructure for disabled people.

And it's a bit annoying for other shoppers they block the aisles in the Walmart all the time.

yeah that's what I meant. Of course the way cities are made has a big influence on people's lives. I also saw a lot of people using bikes in Montréal, much more than here. Probably less in december though.



And Italy also has the highest percentage of cars per habitant in all of Europe, so it's hardly the fittest country to begin with, although I see a lot of people driving half a kilometer to go weight lifting at the local gym. It's just a weird culture sometimes, mixing healthy food and a strange relation to one's environment.
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Old 10-04-2018, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Monnem Germany/ from San Diego
2,298 posts, read 3,106,214 times
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From what I see here in Germany incomparison to where I came from in the US (San Diego), people in the middleclass live about the same as people in the middle class in the US and the poorseem to do better. I think they earn a bit less in general, but housing is a lot cheaper,food seems mostly cheaper, fuel is more but the other stuff not really. Maybe their houses are smaller and sometimes their cars are smaller but then they take more vacations and travel more.

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Old 10-05-2018, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,083 posts, read 85,880,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
It depends on where in the United States.


Where I live (Massachusetts), the minimum wage is $11/hour. You make $20K working 40-hour weeks. The minimum wage is going up to $15/hour over the next few years. If you work those 40-hour weeks, you make closer to $30K. Somebody making that kind of money is going to qualify for MassHealth, the Massachusetts name for Medicaid. Socialized medicine. You have access to world class health care though some physicians won't take Medicaid patients since they lose money on them.



In general, food and consumer goods are much less expensive in the United States. Certainly energy is cheaper. The biggest difference is public transportation. Other than a few cities where commuters use it, public transportation in the US is awful. If you're low income and can't afford a car, you are extremely limited unless you live in one of the few cities where you are fine without a car. You would need to share housing with room mates. It wouldn't be a luxurious life but you would do OK.
In few years that $15 will be worth just $11.
And food isn't cheaper in the US. That's an urban myth people who never travel happily repeat.
Perhaps the worst junk is cheaper in the US, but that stuff is not sold in the stores, and no one would buy it even if that were available...
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Old 10-06-2018, 08:55 AM
 
23,897 posts, read 10,260,806 times
Reputation: 45690
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
In few years that $15 will be worth just $11.
And food isn't cheaper in the US. That's an urban myth people who never travel happily repeat.
Perhaps the worst junk is cheaper in the US, but that stuff is not sold in the stores, and no one would buy it even if that were available...
It really depends on the area in the US. But as you consider US built vehicles not comparable to German built ones your opinion about food may be similar.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:22 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,059 posts, read 106,870,458 times
Reputation: 115814
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
In few years that $15 will be worth just $11.
And food isn't cheaper in the US. That's an urban myth people who never travel happily repeat.
Perhaps the worst junk is cheaper in the US, but that stuff is not sold in the stores, and no one would buy it even if that were available...
I also take issue with his "access to world class medicine" statement. For most of my life, I haven't had access to anything but cursory annual checkups. I couldn't find a doctor, who took my chronic health concerns seriously, or who would refer me to specialists. The more those chronic issues compounded, the further into denial primary care doctors retreated. When I worked as a massage therapist, I saw other people going through the same thing. Their doctors refused to discuss their chronic conditions, until the situation landed them in the hospital emergency room. There's also a very big problem, with doctors who are 15 years behind the latest research produced by our National Institute of Health, and other leading research institutions. There's a shocking level of ignorance about treatments for common conditions.

Our health care system is a horrible joke. One pays enormous monthly premiums for health insurance, but doesn't get much at all in return for that. According to The WHO, there are 3rd World countries with better health care. And in some cities, retirees on Medicare can't find doctors who will accept them as patients. Some rural areas lack adequate medical facilities, and have only one doctor serving several towns.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 10-06-2018 at 09:32 AM..
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:42 AM
 
23,897 posts, read 10,260,806 times
Reputation: 45690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I also take issue with his "access to world class medicine" statement. For most of my life, I haven't had access to anything but cursory annual checkups. I couldn't find a doctor, who took my chronic health concerns seriously, or who would refer me to specialists. The more those chronic issues compounded, the further into denial primary care doctors retreated. When I worked as a massage therapist, I saw other people going through the same thing. Their doctors refused to discuss their chronic conditions, until the situation landed them in the hospital emergency room. There's also a very big problem, with doctors who are 15 years behind the latest research produced by our National Institute of Health, and other leading research institutions. There's a shocking level of ignorance about treatments for common conditions.

Our health care system is a horrible joke. One pays enormous monthly premiums for health insurance, but doesn't get much at all in return for that. According to The WHO, there are 3rd World countries with better health care. And in some cities, retirees on Medicare can't find doctors who will accept them as patients. Some rural areas lack adequate medical facilities, and have only one doctor serving several towns.
And again - personal opinion based on personal experiences. Please do not use "our" health care system as my family has had nothing but great experiences compared to what we went through in Germany. At around 1500$ premium for a family per year and copays under 50$ including major surgeries SO went through - beats premiums, copays and especially waits elsewhere.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:01 PM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,239,302 times
Reputation: 9994
My personal opinion/observation about American Health Care, is that it's the money-making machine first and utmost; the "health care" essence is coming secondary.
The lavish "window views," and "healing garden" that I saw in the new local hospital ( and not only) is a good clue, but then there are other.
Yes, it's true that American hospitals have the latest equipment there is, but doctors are unable to diagnose practically ANYTHING without the mentioned above machines. So the depth of knowledge is not there, and even if it is, it's discouraged, in fear of losing money ( i.e. possible lawsuits.) ( Overall the fear of being sued is apparent in American clinics/hospitals probably more than anywhere else. They are sticking to "prescribed rules" up to a T., even when if doesn't make much sense.)
Yes, there ARE good/top specialists in American hospitals; for the most part they work in the areas that are pretty straightforward and treatment/research promise a lot of money; heart problems, surgeons - things like that. The rest ( not promising to give big returns on investments - research, operations) is pretty mediocre.

Last edited by erasure; 10-06-2018 at 06:49 PM..
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