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Their official communist party is basically fake, actually aligned with Putin/United Russia behind the scenes, and only kept around for people to waste their votes on rather than protesting/rebelling. They are consistently the second largest party in Russia and in a country where serious opposition gets crushed, it's very odd the leader(s) of that party have had no issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commun...tion#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gennady_Zyuganov
A lot of Russians are weary of just "protesting/rebelling," looking at the neighboring Ukraine and what too place THERE. So there is no consent in opposition on how to act exactly in current situation - to get the government they want through the vote, or through mass protests and ignore of the whole voting process.
That's number one, number two - it's no surprise that Putin kept Zuganov around for so long, because when Putin came to power, he liked to flirt with Russian "left," reinstating Soviet anthem and some other Soviet attributes. So keeping the Communist party around ( and thus giving a wink to older generation after Yeltsin's fiasco) was part of a plan.
When it comes to Zyuganov, it's really hard to tell what his role REALLY is, since lately he sounds very angry, genuinely so, while accusing the United Russia in Duma. Zuganov is no baffoon Zhirinovsky style - his words cut down to the point, so I am not sure what the role of this man REALLY is, and why he is still around.
P.S. It is interesting to note, that when Zyuganov was in position to win the 1996 presidential elections, he said to Browder that he was not going to cancel the privatization process ( whatever he meant by that.)
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I understand wanting there to be a significant alternative but the Soviet Union and all of the countries modeled after it that they helped gain power and stay alive were essentially state capitalist and totalitarian.
It's incorrect to claim that Soviet economy was "state capitalism," because "capitalism" is an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state."
So money and profits are the engines behind the capitalist society, but for Soviet state it was NOT a case. Ideology and status were its engine, and that's what a lot of Americans can't understand.
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They significantly damaged the meaning of "socialism" and "communism" by incorrectly calling themselves that. The workers did not own the means of production in the Soviet Union (the core tenant of socialism), the state did and the state controlled the workers.
The ownership of the means of production by workers/peasants can exist only in small communities, such as Russian peasant communes ( or "Mir") that Russians had for centuries.
But having such ownership on a scale of a COUNTRY ( particularly such huge country as Russia,) is simply unrealistic. Of course they needed to have a state, a socialist state to be more precise.
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They initially claimed the totalitarianism and state ownership was temporary as they were to transition to actual communism after pushing through industrialization but that never happened and instead just started claiming what they were was "communist" along with western countries calling them that as well.
No, Western countries were calling Russia "communist country" ( because of the ruling party, apparently.) But Communist party itself never claimed that Russia achieved "Communism." They were stating that Russian achieved the "developed Socialism" - that was it.
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They were also very nationalist and expansionist (conquering neighboring countries,
Not true. Soviet Union lost a lot of lands that used to belong to Russian empire, and it stayed this way until the WWII. It's only with approaching WWII Stalin took the opportunity and invaded the neighboring countries, keeping in mind the possible war of attrition, that Russians used many times in the past, when they were attacked. Stalin's foresight was correct this time around as well.
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pushing propaganda in poor regions of developing countries and greatly helping those rebel groups that aligned with them)
Sort of like what the US is doing when having a chance?
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and at one point had an agreement with Hitler/Germany behind the scenes for neither to interfere with what the other was doing until that obviously fell apart.
Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed already AFTER the Munich agreement, when Stalin figured out that no one was going to stand up against Hitler and that the allies most likely were looking forward to the war between Germany and Russia.
So he took his chance to buy his time and to prepare the country for that upcoming war.
And yes, Soviet Union WAS totalitarian state - that much is true.
What is the current Communist party of Russia? Is the goal of the Communist Party to create a communist society? I think communist society is unrealizable and most probably it is a typical socialist/left party with typically left goals such as reduction of poverty and promotion of social justice. I support it as I support in general all sort of left-wingness .
How is that Navalnyi? What is his worldview, right or left? It is obvious that Navalnyi is the favorite of the West or someone who West wants to be seen as "Russian opposition". That alone must be decided by the very numerous stories about Navalnyi in the main stream media of this small country what is such a zealous and assidual friend of the West. Navalnyi here, Navalnyi there, Navalnyi over and over again. That Navalnyi is clearly overrepresented.
That's exactly what he did. That pact was nothing more than a gamble to buy time. I suspect the Soviet high command (Stavka) was certain of it. The behavior of the Germany and other western powers (especially in the elites of the west, powerful and opportunistic entities and individuals) told them that conflict was all but inevitable.
I hope Putin and his people do well enough to keep in power. I don't really think the Communists really know or care what is going on in the world outside. Do they really think the west would take another course if the Russian nation would change its stripes yet again?
The goal of the west is the SUBJUGATION of Russia, the dissolution of the nation into a group of petty warring states from the St Petersburg to Vladivostok, Astrakhan to Archangelsk. Make no mistake. I think there is a conflict inevitable, the only way Russia will survive that is just like they did in the past.
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Originally Posted by Winterfall8324
There are lots of lies from that era, but the soviets had support by the time Russia was being turned into a capitalist hell hole.
Furthermore today the communist party has changed and can stop Putin's ultimate power.
You clearly need to open some history books regarding communism, or perhaps read Orwells Animal Farm, they may give you some insight in to the workings of the commist state. Films such as 'The Lives of Others' or 'Child 44' may give you a furher insight in relation to commusst state control, which is inevitable what happens when the state becomes too powerful.
I come from a country where Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels wrote much of their work regarding communism, and a countrywhere the likes of Lennin, Stalin and Trotsky lived for a while. Indeed Stalin was merely beaten up in the East End after his remarks to a young woman. Marx is buried at Highgate Cemtery in London, and the grave of Alexander Litvinenko is now buried near by, as for Engels he was cremated and his ashes scattered near beach head in Sussex, which is not too far from Brighton.
Ho Chi Minh the Vietnamese Communist leader also lived her, as did people such as Charles Dickens and indeed George Orwell.
Communism just led to the most awful brutal corrupt totalitarian dictatorships, whilst the trouble with Russia today is not capitalism, it's organised crime.
What is the current Communist party of Russia? Is the goal of the Communist Party to create a communist society? I think communist society is unrealizable and most probably it is a typical socialist/left party with typically left goals such as reduction of poverty and promotion of social justice. I support it as I support in general all sort of left-wingness .
So do I, when it comes specifically to RUSSIA ( that part of the world, your neck of woods including. . )
Over there everything is pretty much straightforward. It's much more complicated when it comes to the modern "left" in the US. It's a whole different story.
Well back to Russian Communists - judging even by the fact that they nominated the owner of private business as their candidate for presidency recently, is very telling I'd say. They finally changed their rigid stubborn ways (at least PART of them, but there is still another "die hard" part, that makes up all kind of "make belief" stories about the life in the USSR, what a flawless society it was. Oh well.)
My question remains how far Zuyganov et al are willing to go, breaking away with Putin and the whole current establishment, part of which they are today.
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How is that Navalnyi? What is his worldview, right or left? It is obvious that Navalnyi is the favorite of the West or someone who West wants to be seen as "Russian opposition". That alone must be decided by the very numerous stories about Navalnyi in the main stream media of this small country what is such a zealous and assidual friend of the West. Navalnyi here, Navalnyi there, Navalnyi over and over again. That Navalnyi is clearly overrepresented.
I looked into his "presidential program," and I am not surprised why he is America's darling.
To begin with - there is a lot of "water" ( i.e. not much of substance) in his program.
And if to take in consideration that his incumbent ( Putin that is) simply DOESN'T have any official program for public to read ( he finds it unnecessary apparently, ) it's not easy to compare these two, point by point.
What little I could see in this comparison, made by such Russian "liberal" media outlet as "Dozd'" ( "The Rain") is kinda telling and kinda not.
P.S. Pay attention that what's identified as "liberal" in Russia, is actually "right wing" by American standards.
So..
"Navalny's Program and Putin's theses; spot the differences" by Дождь.
Putin: "Political system must be flexible, the economy must be built on hi-tech, the productivity must continue to grow..."
Navalny: "Russia is a very rich country. We should stop believing in lies that the poverty of people and the ruined economy have any valid reasons. "There are no funds available, so you hang in there" ( Medvedev's words.) In the reality, the main reason of our poverty is corruption."
Putin: "A lot has been done in the health care as far as technology goes; we've created a lot of pre-natal care centers in Russian cities, and I think we'll have to continue this program in the future.. I already talked about the decreased maternal and infant mortality rates..."
Navalny: "I want you and your children to be healthy. That's why I'll double health care spending.
Putin:"When it comes to military spending, it goes ... ( whatever amount of trillions ( in rubles) for maintenance and ( whatever amount of trillions in rubles.) This is approximately a bit over 8% of GDP. Following the current currency course, it's about 46 + billion dollars. The United States recently signed the law, where they are going to spend on military 700 billion dollars. So we are spending a bit over $ 46 billion and they spend $700 billion. Are you getting the difference?"
Navalny: "When it comes to defense money, we are not going to cut the budget, but we''ll change the structure in such way, that we'll allocate more money for salaries. This will allow us to create a a contract army, where the professionals will get very good pay."
P.S. In the part on international politics in his program, Navalny appeals to "cut support to dictators," (Bashar Assad including,) to "fulfill Russia's obligations," "to reinstate the relations with the US, EU and Ukraine, - the most important partners of Russia."
So yeah... I can see now why he is America's darling and the only "opposition" there is in Russia, worth promoting.
Putin:"When it comes to media - RT, Sputnik - their share is minuscule, comparably to what American global media is doing around the world, and here in Russia. But even this (minuscule input) is perceived as a threat by them. So where is the freedom of information then? Where is the freedom of speech?"
Navalny: "Subsidies to the state media - i.e. financing of lies and propaganda is going to be drastically cut."
Putin: "When it comes to regions, we are not always in touch with them; we don't even know sometimes what's going on there. This is bad of course.. We need to be aware of everything. But that's why we organize the events like this every year.. the conference. Then we have the "direct line."
Navalny. "Very often there is no need to allocate money. They simply need to be redirected. For example now the Federal center simply robs other regions and cities. I will leave them at least two trillion (rubles) of their own taxes and give them rights to run their own affairs."
So when it comes to details of internal economics, it seems like Navalny wants just to tweak things, whereas he wants to change them drastically on international level, when it comes to military affairs.
*Communists* ( or rather Grudinin's presidential program) is much more distinct in terms of proposed changes of course, ( they are much more practical and precise in what they want to see changed and how, when it comes both to international and domestic affairs.)
So do I, when it comes specifically to RUSSIA ( that part of the world, your neck of woods including. . )
Over there everything is pretty much straightforward. It's much more complicated when it comes to the modern "left" in the US. It's a whole different story.
Well back to Russian Communists - judging even by the fact that they nominated the owner of private business as their candidate for presidency recently, is very telling I'd say. They finally changed their rigid stubborn ways (at least PART of them, but there is still another "die hard" part, that makes up all kind of "make belief" stories about the life in the USSR, what a flawless society it was. Oh well.)
My question remains how far Zuyganov et al are willing to go, breaking away with Putin and the whole current establishment, part of which they are today.
I looked into his "presidential program," and I am not surprised why he is America's darling.
To begin with - there is a lot of "water" ( i.e. not much of substance) in his program.
And if to take in consideration that his incumbent ( Putin that is) simply DOESN'T have any official program for public to read ( he finds it unnecessary apparently, ) it's not easy to compare these two, point by point.
What little I could see in this comparison, made by such Russian "liberal" media outlet as "Dozd'" ( "The Rain") is kinda telling and kinda not.
P.S. Pay attention that what's identified as "liberal" in Russia, is actually "right wing" by American standards.
So..
"Navalny's Program and Putin's theses; spot the differences" by Дождь.
Putin: "Political system must be flexible, the economy must be built on hi-tech, the productivity must continue to grow..."
Navalny: "Russia is a very rich country. We should stop believing in lies that the poverty of people and the ruined economy have any valid reasons. "There are no funds available, so you hang in there" ( Medvedev's words.) In the reality, the main reason of our poverty is corruption."
Putin: "A lot has been done in the health care as far as technology goes; we've created a lot of pre-natal care centers in Russian cities, and I think we'll have to continue this program in the future.. I already talked about the decreased maternal and infant mortality rates..."
Navalny: "I want you and your children to be healthy. That's why I'll double health care spending.
Putin:"When it comes to military spending, it goes ... ( whatever amount of trillions ( in rubles) for maintenance and ( whatever amount of trillions in rubles.) This is approximately a bit over 8% of GDP. Following the current currency course, it's about 46 + billion dollars. The United States recently signed the law, where they are going to spend on military 700 billion dollars. So we are spending a bit over $ 46 billion and they spend $700 billion. Are you getting the difference?"
Navalny: "When it comes to defense money, we are not going to cut the budget, but we''ll change the structure in such way, that we'll allocate more money for salaries. This will allow us to create a a contract army, where the professionals will get very good pay."
P.S. In the part on international politics in his program, Navalny appeals to "cut support to dictators," (Bashar Assad including,) to "fulfill Russia's obligations," "to reinstate the relations with the US, EU and Ukraine, - the most important partners of Russia."
So yeah... I can see now why he is America's darling and the only "opposition" there is in Russia, worth promoting.
Putin:"When it comes to media - RT, Sputnik - their share is minuscule, comparably to what American global media is doing around the world, and here in Russia. But even this (minuscule input) is perceived as a threat by them. So where is the freedom of information then? Where is the freedom of speech?"
Navalny: "Subsidies to the state media - i.e. financing of lies and propaganda is going to be drastically cut."
Putin: "When it comes to regions, we are not always in touch with them; we don't even know sometimes what's going on there. This is bad of course.. We need to be aware of everything. But that's why we organize the events like this every year.. the conference. Then we have the "direct line."
Navalny. "Very often there is no need to allocate money. They simply need to be redirected. For example now the Federal center simply robs other regions and cities. I will leave them at least two trillion (rubles) of their own taxes and give them rights to run their own affairs."
So when it comes to details of internal economics, it seems like Navalny wants just to tweak things, whereas he wants to change them drastically on international level, when it comes to military affairs.
*Communists* ( or rather Grudinin's presidential program) is much more distinct in terms of proposed changes of course, ( they are much more practical and precise in what they want to see changed and how, when it comes both to international and domestic affairs.)
It’s always educational reading your posts, I learn a lot.
Personally I hope the new moderate communist party can win and implement leftist reforms to the private enterprise model that Russia currently has.
It’s always educational reading your posts, I learn a lot.
Personally I hope the new moderate communist party can win and implement leftist reforms to the private enterprise model that Russia currently has.
This was always the danger Putin had by allowing the Communists to participate in politics. They aren't a fake managed party. All they had to do was change their spots (i.e. move away from actual Communism) and they can become a problem.
You are all free to move to Russia if the communists ever win again there. Good luck.
No one can "move free" anywhere any longer.
It's all about regulations/visas and what's not.
Communist Russia won't be an exception I'm sure, if communists will "ever win again."
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