Is the attitude towards the Muslim migration to Europe very similar to the Latin American migration to the US? (best, Slavs)
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This point is arguable, the one thing that strikes me about the US is the great racial divide - people are catagorised strongly by 'race' in the US - African American, Latino (which isn't even a 'race' in the rest of the world!) etc. Without suggesting that either 'over there' or 'over here' is less or most racist I would suggest that arguments could be made either way.
"Latino" wasn't considered a race either in America at one point in time, but it became one largely because of changing demographics. More to the point, though, we categorize ourselves a lot. And it's not just race, but ethnicity. I'm very proud to be Italian-American, but I find Europeans misunderstand us. They think we actually consider ourselves Italian in lieu of being American, but that's totally false. In fact, it is really a matter of ethnic, ancestral and--to some extent--cultural pride. To embrace this label is not to repudiate being American.
I think I perceive some of that European attitude in your post - i.e., the insinuation is, more or less, why can't you all just be American? The answer is, we already are. No one can really suggest that Hispanics or blacks or Asians, etc., are precluded from being American. Being American is what unites us all, but we're a very heterogeneous nation. The most realistic approach is to recognize those differences and not pretend that they don't exist, while still emphasizing our collective Americanness. E pluribus unum ("out of many, one") is our motto, after all.
Some European countries refuse to even collect racial or ethnic demographic statistics. France is a good example. Yet this policy of artificial colorblindness does not seem to minimize differences at all, or bring people together. I think there is a very real sense that most European nations are essentially ethnostates. It is far more difficult to integrate new immigrants into such an identity. As a side note, though, this issue seems somewhat less pronounced there in the UK, because being "British" is already a multiethnic identity, as opposed to being English, Scottish, Welsh, etc.
California has long been an immigration mecca, and Hispanic immigration is nothing new here. As you say, diversity helps newcomers blend in. And by diversity I mean "diversity", not non-White people as it is often used nowadays. Hispanics are to SoCal what Whites are to, say, Oregon. They dominate the area by a wide margin. In fact, large chunks of Los Angeles are virtually 100% Hispanic, eg East LA. It's not uncommon for customers to walk up to clerks and speak to them in SPanish. They recreate Mexico/Central America in the US. I know that around New York Latinos are numerous but nowhere near what they are in SoCal. They go more unnoticed and it's also easier for them to assimilate or at least integrate.
It's all a question of numbers, sometimes people in Europe wonder why do Americans complain about Latino immigrants because they are Christians, and those few Latinos living in Europe integrate well. On the other hand Americans believe that the US does a better job than the EU at integrating its immigrants since the small Muslims community existing is prosperous here.
I'm in the LA area. Note that I am not from here so I may have perspective than other local posters. To me, LA is a fairly racially segregated city. People love trying exotic love, but don't care for an exotic SO. Add to this that compared to the NorthWest Whites are a small minority here. Mixed couples exist, now saying that they're common I certainly wouldn't say that.
I feel like our views on Latinos will integrate will depend on what part of the country we live in.
I feel that in Chicago and NYC Latinos have absorbed given their time in this country.
You have to remember that neither Chicago nor the Northeast were under Spanish rule. California was as well once belonged to Mexico.
Therefore you will never see anything like the “Aztlan Movement” over here.
Meanwhile in Cali you have Chicano professors who constantly talk about chicanos don’t have to assimilate and how this land is really our land.
I feel like our views on Latinos will integrate will depend on what part of the country we live in.
I feel that in Chicago and NYC Latinos have absorbed given their time in this country.
You have to remember that neither Chicago nor the Northeast were under Spanish rule. California was as well once belonged to Mexico.
Therefore you will never see anything like the “Aztlan Movement” over here.
Meanwhile in Cali you have Chicano professors who constantly talk about chicanos don’t have to assimilate and how this land is really our land.
I guess you have a point, it really is kind of a catch-22 though. A lot of people don't want to leave their native culture behind but feel that the only way to be fully accepted by society is to do so.
I feel like for Hispanics whose families have been in the US for generations, they don't have much connection to their native culture, many times they are fairly light-skinned, and their family has made it to middle-class and above their life is completely different than Latinos that arrive as immigrants.
I'm an immigrant and many times I feel that even Hispanics like the ones I described above have some resentment for people like me not being "Americanized" enough. But the way I look at it is I can suffer those disenfranchisements from society so that my kids and their kids won't have to. I do have high hopes that my the generations after me, won't have to go through stigmas and discrimination like that.
So I can say that at least for me in the US I do think that Latinos have hope that things will get better. I don't know whether the situation in Europe makes muslims feel more hopeless about things like that.
I can say that if I had grown up in Europe instead of the US, that my life would be a lot better and I would probably not even know what discrimination was.
Last edited by River City Rocky; 12-08-2018 at 11:24 AM..
"Latino" wasn't considered a race either in America at one point in time, but it became one largely because of changing demographics. More to the point, though, we categorize ourselves a lot. And it's not just race, but ethnicity. I'm very proud to be Italian-American, but I find Europeans misunderstand us. They think we actually consider ourselves Italian in lieu of being American, but that's totally false. In fact, it is really a matter of ethnic, ancestral and--to some extent--cultural pride. To embrace this label is not to repudiate being American.
I think I perceive some of that European attitude in your post - i.e., the insinuation is, more or less, why can't you all just be American? The answer is, we already are. No one can really suggest that Hispanics or blacks or Asians, etc., are precluded from being American. Being American is what unites us all, but we're a very heterogeneous nation. The most realistic approach is to recognize those differences and not pretend that they don't exist, while still emphasizing our collective Americanness. E pluribus unum ("out of many, one") is our motto, after all.
Some European countries refuse to even collect racial or ethnic demographic statistics. France is a good example. Yet this policy of artificial colorblindness does not seem to minimize differences at all, or bring people together. I think there is a very real sense that most European nations are essentially ethnostates. It is far more difficult to integrate new immigrants into such an identity. As a side note, though, this issue seems somewhat less pronounced there in the UK, because being "British" is already a multiethnic identity, as opposed to being English, Scottish, Welsh, etc.
Europe has no issues with Latinized immigrants, call them Hispanics, Vietnamese or people from the Philippines. Americans, which are also Latins, sorry, present no issues.. As Latinized I refer to people that have middle class Christian or moderate Islam values and don't have any issues with women and pigs.
Latinos are Christians so they assimilate to the West obviously. Muslims in Europe share different religion and culture and most are anti-West and want sharia law..
Latinos are Christians so they assimilate to the West obviously. Muslims in Europe share different religion and culture and most are anti-West and want sharia law..
The near totality of Muslims in Europe do not want to live under the rule of the Sharia. Many Muslims are cultural, their practice of the religion is usually limited to not eating Pork meat and fasting during the Ramadan. Other than that they see no problem with drinking, engaging in "fornication", gambling, smoking etc.
On the other hand Hispanics might be traditionally linked to Christianity but it doesn't stop more than a few of them from getting involved with street gangs, teenage pregnancy, and woman having children from multiple fathers out of the wedlock, which we'll agree aren't exactly christian values.
[quote=iron_stick;53884798]The near totality of Muslims in Europe do not want to live under the rule of the Sharia. Many Muslims are cultural, their practice of the religion is usually limited to not eating Pork meat and fasting during the Ramadan. Other than that they see no problem with drinking, engaging in "fornication", gambling, smoking etc.
On the other hand Hispanics might be traditionally linked to Christianity but it doesn't stop more than a few of them from getting involved with street gangs, teenage pregnancy, and woman having children from multiple fathers out of the wedlock, which we'll agree aren't exactly christian values.[/quote]
It is my experience however that they are viewed as trashy by the one's who are well adjusted. I have noticed though that there is a higher tolerance for these sort of things among Mexican-Americans and Central-Americans in parts of California. Although they may be viewed as trashy they are still tolerated whereas some other groups just don't tolerate this nonsense they just totally sideline people who engage in these activities.
It is my experience however that they are viewed as trashy by the one's who are well adjusted. I have noticed though that there is a higher tolerance for these sort of things among Mexican-Americans and Central-Americans in parts of California. Although they may be viewed as trashy they are still tolerated whereas some other groups just don't tolerate this nonsense they just totally sideline people who engage in these activities.
Yes, agreed. The frequency of the aforementioned behaviors is in great part explained by the community's benevolence towards it. The situation won't change anytime soon since many don't see wrongdoing there.
Latinos are Christians so they assimilate to the West obviously. Muslims in Europe share different religion and culture and most are anti-West and want sharia law..
Not really. Most Muslims just want to get on their lives, really, Most are hard workers and don't want any trouble,
Hispanics are different as they share the same culture and Latinate languages, and religion,,
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