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I get the impression that in most European countries English is already very widespread among the young people. [..] At the current rate the world is changing, I cannot imagine that it will be more than a couple of generations from now that young people will begin to see learning their local language (beyond a basic level) as more of a chore than useful. Agree?
You gotta know, Europe consists of many countries andnot just a collection of Hollands and Swedens;
Spanish is the world's second most common native language, behind Mandarin and ahead of English, the growth of Spanish is stronger than the growth of English.
yes English is getting stronger, but so is Spanish, too, as well as other languages, and there's a big Spanish-language market and in future there will be a gigantic Spanish-language market, there's no reason why anyone in Spain would give up Spanish and switch to English.
With the rise of 200-million Brazil, the Portuguese-language market is rapidly growing and there's no reason either for anyone in Portugal to switch to English, especially since Portugal only borders Spain and with its nearby global 400million+ language market, many Portuguese will value Spanish higher than English.Furthermore, a Hispanic/Spaniard does not even need to know English when travelling to California and in some areas of the US, Spanish has become the predominant language of daily life.
And just by the way, IF your theory was true, then in Belize English would have expanded its lead, but it did not, it's Spanish that is about to take over combined English+Kriol in Belize and becoming the dominant native language. Belize is turning from a British Honduras into a Mexican Honduras.
In fact, ever since the end of the second world war; Spanish made more progress as a native language in the Anglo world than English in the Hispanic world.
Germany's TV stations are the largest in Europe and have the biggest audience, dwarfing British TV channels, so if English was really as strong as you proclaim then English-language TV would be Europe's most watched TV - but it isn't. It's German TV that is Europe's most watched TV. The rest of europe has little interest in watching the British Brainwash Cooperation or Clinton News Network or other propganda networks because they all got them in their own national language.
Furthermore, Germany has the world's second-largest synchronization market, all the popular TV shows are dubbed into German anyway, and with German TV being the largest in Europe, there's no reason for Germans to switch to being native English.
It's very unlikely that France will switch to native English. Actually, there's the propganda network La Francophonie wich makes French people believe that French is still a major world language, so they won't even think that English is that useful.
In France, people love French so much that they will always use French the most
As for Italy and tourism, do you know how ugly the UK is and how beautiful Italy is? Italians are always happy to return back to Italy after they have visited England. They will surely not switch to English either, because they are proud to be Italians and love their values and have no interesting in adopting the same native language as in skyline-ruined-by-awful-dull-skyscrapers cities like London.
Russia which is also a major part of Europe, will surely never switch to English either. (The EU does not equal Europe, it never equalled Europe and with Brexit it will equal Europe even less.) You don't need English in Russia. With so many large countries not switching to English, it makes it less likely for smaller countries, too.
As for Scandinavia + Holland / Flemish Belgium : Even if they switched to English as a native language, their combined population is only as big as the population of Spain and is far from leading to entire Europe having English as the dominant native language.
Also, already in year 1971 Arabic has overtaken English as the most often spoken native language in continental Europe and has expanded its position ever since. In a few decades, there will be more native Arabic speakers in all of Europe, including the UK and Ireland, than native anglophones in entire Europe. Arabic has a much stronger native growth rate than does English.
Moreover, on a globa scale, English currently is third position as the world's most common native language, behind Mandarin and Spanish. It won't be number three for much longer as the growth of Arabic is much stronger than English's growth, which means that Arabic will overtake English in the future and become a more common native language than English.
Well, to be fair, the topic creator did not formulate that English will become the predominant language of Europe, he just stated that English will become more used than the national languages which does not exclude the option that a Third Language,another language, will take the crown and number one position.
I think it is a possible scenario that in Scandinavia English will become more used than the local language because 1. Arabic is gaining much weight in Scandinavia and making Swedish/Norwegian/Danish less important while 2. English is doing the same, albeit differently.
So yes - English will become more used in Scandinavia than the local languages but it will nevertheless not be the predominant language of these countries because that will be Arabic.
Interestingly, in Scandinavia, Arabic has already overtakes other languages and become the second most common native language, beating other Nordic languages:
"According to linguist and researcher Mikael Parkvall, Arabic has dethroned Finnishas Sweden's most popular minority language, making it the first to do so in hundreds of years.
For over 800 years, Finnish has been Sweden's largest minority language. Owing to the recent years' influx of asylum seekers from predominantly Arab-speaking countries in the Middle East and North Africa, Arabic has now deposed Finnish to third place, researcher Mikael Parkvall argued in an opinion piece published in Svenska Dagbladet."
"Sveriges Radio, the country's publicly funded radio broadcaster, recently announced it would broadcast a talk show in Arabic. It will be hosted by a comedian from Syria who arrived in the country just last year."
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...overtaking-it/
"Arabic language classes for adults are becoming increasingly popular in Sweden with a major adult education federation saying more students are now studying Arabic than English or French."
To make it short, for those who are too lazy to read my highly informative award-winning post, here a scientific summary ( QuebecOpec is a very generous person ) of what I wrote:
Given the exorbitant growth rate of Arabic and the non-observable shift towards native English in continental Europe, it is highly unlikely that most Europeans will use more English than their respective native languages and although in a few, mainly Nordic countries, a switch to using more English than their national languages will have been accomplished, it will still not make English the most common native language as Arabic will occupy the leading prime position there and these countries account only for a minority of Europe's entire population - in the present, Russian and German are Europe's two most common native languages, in the future it will be Russian, German and Arabic.
English will continue to be the number one second language for most, if not all, European countries but it won't become a native language. Also I agree, that the apparent spread of English in Europe, while certainly there is a bit exaggerated by the OP.
Question to the OP, have you ever been to Europe? Perhaps Italy, Spain, France or Germany. You'd be surprised how many people away from the tourist areas actually speak fluent English. You'd be surprised because it is not as many as you might think.
This question is obviously posted by a mono-lingual because the human brain is more than capable of learning to speak two languages fluently. Especially growing up you don't even give it a second thought.
I think the native English speaking world will be at a disadvantage in the future as the rest begin to attain fluency in two or even three languages.
What about international marriages between citizens of European countries, where people tend to speak English with each other? Will the ongoing growth of their amount affect the spread of English at the expense of local languages?
If you want to take in part in social life and work you have to learn the local language, let's say I marry an Italian girl and move to Italy I would have to learn Italian unless you don't want to be an outsider. Even if younger Italians for the most part speak English, how about the elderly and rather uneducated people, your parents in law? It is not a good thing to live in a country and not speak the local language. I don't know about growing numbers of international marriages but I suppose in most cases one partner already is bilingual and speaks the language of his/her partner.
I wonder what would happen if at one day the US predominantly speaks Spanish, would Spanish replace English then on a global level?
You're Dutch? Dutch is kind of German dialect btw.,
Yes I'm Dutch. Dutch a dialect from German? I don't think so. Dutch and German are very much related, both Germanic languages, but Dutch stems from the Northsea Germanic languages, while German stems from the inland Germanic languages. Probably the reason why Dutch is more related to English than to German.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM
but I think you didn't get my point, I don't expect the Dutch to speak French or German (or English) anytime soon, however I think it's reasonable to suppose that over centuries smaller countries adopt the languages of larger neighboring countries and some languages simply die out, however it did not happen in the past, the EU is no such a new idea, we had the Roman Empire where Europe was a political entity in some sense as well, yet not all Europeans adopted Latin or French, so why would they adopt English?
In that case i agree. I don't think that will happen either, but languages do changes over time. I could see the possibility, that over a long time frame, EU would eventualy become one country with one main language (possibly English) and many sub languages (the originals). I mean there are lots of sub languages and dialects within each individual countries so why not in a bigger sence (in centuries). But I definitely think that IF that happened it'd be English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM
Belgium is a kinda stupid and strange country anyways, they should split to both France and the Netherlands, would make more sense for me, Brussels could be turned into a large open air Zoo for worthless politicians
I agree lol! we could use some more forests. And then we'll finaly have some REAL beer!
You have also to consider what is fluency: most young people can speak a somewhat fluent English but nowhere near or close enough to comfortably express better than their own native languages.
In addition to that, you have to consider that:
1) English to me is less expressive and rich than Italian
2) Language is way more than just a communication tool: most anglophone monolinguals seem to take for granted that English is just English and cannot even fathom speaking another language; hence, to them a language is just a tool. To Europeans (and others alike), language is a fundamental part of identity to which I would never renounce. Renouncing to the language of my ancestors, the son of Latin... for what? English? To do what? Just being able to communicate more with people I don't know while consuming more and more? Please, there are certainly morons who value a Netflix tv series more than their own culture and history, people for whom using English words randomly is cool coz Italian is boring but there just belong to that retarded segment of theirs.
3) Language replacement in these circumstances (it would be voluntary, meaning no mass slaughter, no coercion, no external forces forcing a new language) takes long time.
And all this tirade comes from someone who speaks English and various other languages.
This ia a matter entirely up to European countres and nothing to do with Britain.
Britain doesn't like things imposed upon us, and we wouldn't exect the EU or any other oranisation to impose anything on European countries, most of which we have a long history and in many cases a long friendship.
This is not likely to happen unless the European peoples are replaced for the most part by Arabs and Africans, speaking English as a lingua franca does not mean to give up one's native language. Why would somebody speak with his parents or friends in English rather than their mother tongue. Some languages might actually vanish, but Spanish, French, German or Italian will prevail, maybe at some point the Dutch will either speak French or German to adapt to their larger neighbours, but this didn't happen in the past, why should it happen now?
Arab and African immigrants quickly learn the national languages of wherever in Europe they go to. People have to work or live and function in the country/society they live in. Plus the children of immigrants are educated in the national language of the country they live in.
Belgium is a kinda stupid and strange country anyways, they should split to both France and the Netherlands, would make more sense for me, Brussels could be turned into a large open air Zoo for worthless politicians
...what about the 1% officially recognized German-speaking part, will it join Germany or Luxembourg in your scenario?
Like Canada hahaha.
Indeed, both Belgium and Canada have always felt artificial to me. They both have to invest in lots of efforts to convince people that there is (pseudo-)unity in their countries, you know, if you have to make such big efforts, that already is a hint that these countries are kinda in fact living in different realities next to one another and not together.
That being said, Wallonia in Belgium would however prefer to remain Belgium rather than joining France because language is ultimately not everything. Belgium is a federal state which gives Wallonia - as a federal region-state - much more power than it would have in France.
Some time ago, do you remember, Wallonia was about to block the CETA/TTIP treaty (ufortunately it changed its opinion)? If Wallonia was a region of France, it would not have had this power, it would be an almost irrelevant region within France... remember when France restructured its regions, such a thing would be unimaginable in Canada, Germany or Switzerland, there was some opposition but everything is decided in Paris with no veto power for the regions...
Even though Belgium is a horrifying chaotic strange artifical country, this is still the better situation for the majority of people compared to joining France. And for Flemish Belgium: they can't be overvoted by Wallonia, but they could be overvoted by the Netherlands-portion if they united with Holland, so for Flemish Belgium I think being in Belgium lso has is advantages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cattledog69
I could see the possibility, that over a long time frame, EU would eventualy become one country with one main language (possibly English) and many sub languages (the originals). I mean there are lots of sub languages and dialects within each individual countries so why not in a bigger sence (in centuries).
Wat makes you so sure that there will still be a EU in 2050?
Well, if Merkel and future Merkels will continue to use Germany's demographic weight to overvote other countries...
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM
QuebecOpec made an excellent post
Arigatou
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Arab and African immigrants quickly learn the national languages of wherever in Europe they go to. People have to work or live and function in the country/society they live in. Plus the children of immigrants are educated in the national language of the country they live in.
An answer to your comment can only be multifaceted: Some will learn it, but a significant, large portion won't learn it.
The Arab communities have become so large than in some cities it is nowadays possible to totally live completely in Arabic without ever using the local language, especially since official government services are offered in Arabic (yes, they are!) and since they are free translation services for Arabic people. You can already notice the transformation process in Scandinavia.
In Scandinavia, there are now classs rooms where over 50% of youth is Arabic, do you think they speak Swedish in their free time? Certainly not.
It also it multifaceted because if the Arabic community is the only very large migrant community, it makes it less likely for them to learn the local language compared to being in a country with other large non-western migrant groups.
What about international marriages between citizens of European countries, where people tend to speak English with each other? Will the ongoing growth of their amount affect the spread of English at the expense of local languages?
it might happen but in most cases I feel one partner speaks the other one's language. My partner speaks my language when there's just the two of us but I speak hers when I'm around other people (I'm French).
We both speak passable english.
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However, I will take time to explain because I love you all. 
I'm not surprised, cultural education is known to be terrible and self-centered in the ignorant & overweening English-speaking countries who think they rule the world as if it was still 1955 and who think the world will adjust to them. 
1. Arabic is gaining much weight in Scandinavia and making Swedish/Norwegian/Danish less important while 2. English is doing the same, albeit differently.
) of what I wrote: 
we could use some more forests. And then we'll finaly have some REAL beer!
