Historic Notre Dame on fire (train, facts, artifacts, people)

[Minato ku]

How could you install a sprinkler system on a roof from the XIII century ?
It's not fitted for it.

[Neuling]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

I would agree with this. I've been in the western U.S. fighting wildfires in the past and the force of that water being dropped is incredible.

Don't they have different types of outlets? For instance a shower-head type that creates "rain" instead of just dumping a ton of water like a stone?

[Rumann Koch]

Originally Posted by Rumann Koch

It's been almost three hours since the fire started and not a fire engine in sight! The cathedral is right along the Seine - are there no fire boats? How long does it take for the city's Fire Brigade to respond?!

There is a fire boat station, Centre de Secours de la Monnaie at 11 Quai de Conti, located directly on the Seine river just 1000 meters west of Notre Dame!

I wonder why the fire boats could not have been dispatched sooner, run hoses and used water pumped directly out of the Seine?

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Minato ku

How could you install a sprinkler system on a roof from the XIII century ?
It's not fitted for it.

You run pipes hidden in the structure. it's done all the time with historic buildings. Inside the attic is apparently where it started.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Neuling

Don't they have different types of outlets? For instance a shower-head type that creates "rain" instead of just dumping a ton of water like a stone?

I'm not sure. Everything I saw was basically dropping a load all at once. A mist would do little in a large wildfire. Even those large drops are amazingly unimpressive sometimes in terms of slowing down the big wildfires because of their intensity in burning. That's not to say there isn't such technology available.

[Neuling]

Yes, it would have to be like intense rain.

Judging from what I have seen myself, hoses can also create quite some impact at whatever the beam of water hits. That's also a problem with wildfires, the beam can break burning trunks, whose still glowing pieces then get thrust across the landscape.

[Rumann Koch]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

You run pipes hidden in the structure. it's done all the time with historic buildings. Inside the attic apparently where it started.

In 2012, as part of a major renovation, St Patrick's Cathedral in New York City installed a state of the art high pressure water mist system in the timber-constructed attic.

This system was the largest installation of this type ever installed in a historical building and gained national acclaim from the National Fire Protection Association.

[Solstodur]

Originally Posted by Rumann Koch

I used to work in Paris and know the area well.

No excuses the response by the Paris fire department is pitiful!

You aren't grasping the problem at hand - this is a fire that is impossible to stop once it gets going. Paris FD is most likely just doing damage control and evacuations at this point, possible attempting to limit spread into the towers...

Click the tweet below to view a whole thread regarding the problem.

http://twitter.com/GreggFavre/status...47726786371585

[elnina]

Originally Posted by Neuling

It is on the evening news here at the moment. I wonder how such a massive stone monster could burn like that. Stone doesn't burn...
Seems only a small part of the cathedral was hit, anyway. Might have looked worse than it is...

A spokesman from the church said the entire wooden interior of the more-than-800-year-old cathedral is burning and likely to be destroyed. The cathedral had a wooden roof. The hulking framework of wooden beams that supports Notre-Dame is composed of huge pieces of timber, which is ripe for catching light. The supports are even called a "forêt" (or forest) because they're enormous pieces of oak. This "charpente" (or frame) was built from 1,300 oak trees, and the beams that are burning have been standing there since the 13th century.
Due to ongoing renovation, the cathedral was covered in scaffolding.

Originally Posted by Neuling

I wonder why they don't use wildfire helicopters.

As others said - the damage caused by it could even collapse the entire structure.

Originally Posted by Rumann Koch

I used to work in Paris and know the area well.

No excuses the response by the Paris fire department is pitiful!

What do YOU know about the response?

President Donald Trump had tweeted, earlier in the day, “So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!”
Yeah, you and Mr. Trump - the authorities of putting out a fire...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/15/polit...ter/index.html


According to local news, fire officials were immediately on the scene and evacuated the area. The fire broke out at 6:50 PM Paris time which France 24 reported is “five or six minutes” after the cathedral closed for the day.
Fox’s Shep Smith reported that when the fire broke out, it was described as small burning and local news in Paris was not focused on the fire.
France's civil security agency says "all means" except for water-dropping aircraft were deployed to tackle the blaze.
Vincent Dunn, a fire consultant and former New York City fire chief, said that fire hose streams could not reach the top of such a cathedral and that reaching the top on foot was often an arduous climb over winding steps.

Eyewitness John Dickas told ABC News said: "For me, the most heartbreaking moment was when I saw - about 20 minutes after I started watching the fire - I saw the ladders go up and the hoses start spraying.
It was just heartbreaking to watch. The ladders were not tall enough. The hoses were not strong enough. This was, just clearly, a fire beyond the capacity of the crews' capability. I mean, they were clearly doing everything they could. It was just so much bigger and so much more out of control than they had the resources to deal with."
French Interior Minister Christophe Castaner said exceptional measures are being taken to try to save the cathedral. A firefighter at the scene of the blaze told Reuters all efforts are now directed at saving the artwork at the back of the cathedral.

French media has reported the fire may be linked to ongoing renovation work at the cathedral.
Some parts of the building have been wrapped in scaffolding, and certain bronze statues were removed last week for works.
Officials have now opened an investigation into the fire to determine a concrete cause.

There’s a history of churches and synagogues and other houses of worship falling victim to construction fires. One of the reasons for the peril was the proximity of open flames on torches, sparks from welders and other hazards on scaffolding to other flammable materials.

https://abc13.com/notre-dame-fire-sp...rning/5251285/
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...ire/index.html
and other local sources.

*** My thoughts and prayers are with the firefighters on the scene and all the people of Paris. ***

[Neuling]

How high up is that roof? Judging from that photo, it must be almost impossible to get there with hoses...