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Old 11-21-2021, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,080 posts, read 85,880,338 times
Reputation: 130720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
"Couple of thousands" is A LOT OF PEOPLE by the way.
Enough for Polish gov to bring the army to the border.
Yeah, you let a couple of thousands in, then hundreds of thousands will come and demand to be let in too...

Last edited by elnina; 11-21-2021 at 03:32 PM..
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:23 AM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,239,302 times
Reputation: 9994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
You don't see anyone there, because you are sitting at home on your couch all day long. Somewhere far away.

Why don't you ask someone who was there and who is volunteering a lot of time helping refugees? But you wouln't like what I have to say.
I know what I see in front of me on TV screen.
Plenty of close-ups.
It's not like I don't see women and children there.
But I see plenty of young men too.
Why should I seek anyone's opinion on this?
With that being said you are as free as me to express your own.
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Old 11-21-2021, 10:37 AM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,239,302 times
Reputation: 9994
Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
Why the hell did Belrus allowed many people fly from Turkey, Iraq/Syria and Lebanon in the first place without the proper security policies on their backgrounds in the first place?

Belavia, the Belarus state airline, increased the number of flights from the Middle East – including Iraq, Lebanon and Syria – in recent months to enable more migrants to come. For example, flightradar24.com, which monitors global air traffic, reported 27 flights from Beirut to Minsk from August to November 2021, compared to only five in the whole of 2020.

The so called refugees before arriving to the Polish border are staying at hotels in the Belarusian capital. https://www.bbc.com/news/59233244 Surely the Belarusian government is aware of it. https://theconversation.com/trouble-...-leader-172108

The Belarusan president is striving to be like the Turkish president and if he does not get his way with the EU they encourage the movement of refugees to move into the EU by aiding the refugees to the border regions of the EU. The blackmail threat to the EU by Turkey has worked in Turkeys end, as the EU can't really put sanctions on Turkey on their poor human rights and suppression of democracy. The Belarusian president is striving to emulate what the Turkish president did with the refugee crisis.
Why the hell indeed.
Let me remind you the whole chain of events preceding The latest turmoil with the migrants, just in case you forgot.
First the US gov tried to unseat Lukashenko in the same manner as it helped to unseat Yanukovich back in 2013 in the neighboring Ukraine. But it backfired and pushed Belorussia even closer to Moscow than before this attempt of coup d'etat.
Then Belavia was sanctioned because one of the organizers of this coup d'etat (acting from Poland) was grounded and apprehended in Minsk.
Since because of the sanctions Belavia lost revenues in Europe, Luka switched the flights to the Middle East and let *those interested* to travel to EU know that the rout via Belorussia is now open. Let them come and try their luck on Polish border.
Which was his personal *little gift* to Poland, the way to thank it for an attempt to unseat him, that was orchestrated from Washington through Poland.
Hope this helps.
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Old 11-23-2021, 03:49 AM
 
2,234 posts, read 5,463,069 times
Reputation: 2081
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I know what I see in front of me on TV screen.
Plenty of close-ups.
It's not like I don't see women and children there.
But I see plenty of young men too.
Why should I seek anyone's opinion on this?
With that being said you are as free as me to express your own.



TV? So you see nothing. Opinions are irrelevant here, right. They are coming, they will continue to come, and that's good. If you like that or not is not of any relevance.
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Old 11-23-2021, 11:04 AM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,239,302 times
Reputation: 9994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
TV? So you see nothing. Opinions are irrelevant here, right. They are coming, they will continue to come, and that's good. If you like that or not is not of any relevance.
Yes TV.
What I see there is good enough for me.
"It's good they are coming" is your personal opinion only.
There are OTHER opinions out there, which are not less important than yours.
And yes, opinions are relevant in democratic countries.
Once the *opinions* become strong enough, the actions are taken on the governmental level.
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Old 11-23-2021, 04:38 PM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,007,044 times
Reputation: 1941
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Why the hell indeed.
Let me remind you the whole chain of events preceding The latest turmoil with the migrants, just in case you forgot.
First the US gov tried to unseat Lukashenko in the same manner as it helped to unseat Yanukovich back in 2013 in the neighboring Ukraine. But it backfired and pushed Belorussia even closer to Moscow than before this attempt of coup d'etat.
Then Belavia was sanctioned because one of the organizers of this coup d'etat (acting from Poland) was grounded and apprehended in Minsk.
Since because of the sanctions Belavia lost revenues in Europe, Luka switched the flights to the Middle East and let *those interested* to travel to EU know that the rout via Belorussia is now open. Let them come and try their luck on Polish border.
Which was his personal *little gift* to Poland, the way to thank it for an attempt to unseat him, that was orchestrated from Washington through Poland.
Hope this helps.
So Lukashenko uses the refugees as pawns, how much lower that he can go? Besides there are about a dozen that have already died in Belavia and others freezing to death. As the refugees are pushed to the polish border, they are pushed back by Polish guards and troops and the refugees go back and forward, back and forward. With it they lack food as well.

People being pushed at the border and when they get the border pushed back reminds me of what Nazi Germany did in the 1930s where Polish Jews in Germany were sent to the Polish border and Poland did not want them and pushed them back. When they tried to get back into Germany the Nazi guards didnt allow them back into Germany so these Jews were forced to live in no mans land between Germany and Poland.

There are reports of children and babies died along the border and it is the same story as what happened in the German and Polish border before WW2 in the 1930s.

They are not treated like humans and no one really cares about them. Yet they are used by political pawns in the new cold war era.

If Lukashenko has major problems with the EU and Poland, surely there are other ways to help mend problems than going so low to use refugees from far away as political pawns.
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:08 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,416 posts, read 16,510,164 times
Reputation: 29595
Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
So Lukashenko uses the refugees as pawns, how much lower that he can go? Besides there are about a dozen that have already died in Belavia and others freezing to death. As the refugees are pushed to the polish border, they are pushed back by Polish guards and troops and the refugees go back and forward, back and forward. With it they lack food as well.
Pretty low. But there are those that insist we should destroy ourselves by taking in an unlimited number of such refugees, that it's "our fault."
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Old 11-24-2021, 02:02 AM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,239,302 times
Reputation: 9994
Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
So Lukashenko uses the refugees as pawns, how much lower that he can go? Besides there are about a dozen that have already died in Belavia and others freezing to death. As the refugees are pushed to the polish border, they are pushed back by Polish guards and troops and the refugees go back and forward, back and forward. With it they lack food as well.

People being pushed at the border and when they get the border pushed back reminds me of what Nazi Germany did in the 1930s where Polish Jews in Germany were sent to the Polish border and Poland did not want them and pushed them back. When they tried to get back into Germany the Nazi guards didnt allow them back into Germany so these Jews were forced to live in no mans land between Germany and Poland.

There are reports of children and babies died along the border and it is the same story as what happened in the German and Polish border before WW2 in the 1930s.

They are not treated like humans and no one really cares about them. Yet they are used by political pawns in the new cold war era.

If Lukashenko has major problems with the EU and Poland, surely there are other ways to help mend problems than going so low to use refugees from far away as political pawns.
1. Yes Lukashenko uses migrants as pawns to expose Poland and internal EU CONFLICT.
2. No he is not "pushing" the migrants across the border - it's their own choice to push for EU entry. (I don't exclude possibility that some of them are paid for such attempts.)
3. Once the goal is achieved, and the conflict is exposed (I.e. it gets international attention,) of course Belorussian authorities offer the migrants some help - place to stay, ( the local big warehouse, )food, medical help.
Plus Luka lets other international relief organization step in.
Apparently you don't have enough of info on hands.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:23 AM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,416 posts, read 16,510,164 times
Reputation: 29595
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
2. No he is not "pushing" the migrants across the border - it's their own choice to push for EU entry. (I don't exclude possibility that some of them are paid for such attempts.)
Where are the axes and wire cutters coming from?
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Old 11-24-2021, 05:04 AM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,239,302 times
Reputation: 9994
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Where are the axes and wire cutters coming from?
I would guess from the local sources.
More than that - as I've said I don't exclude the possibility that some of these people are PAID to go across the border.
But the overwhelming majority of migrants are not PUSHED TO go there.
It's their own desire to run for EU border.
Belorussians do not push them there - they either offer it or don't stand on their way. These people are free to not to go to Polish border but to fly back to their countries once their Belorussian visas expire.
It's their choice.
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