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Old 06-03-2008, 03:03 PM
 
3,088 posts, read 5,872,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyLaLa View Post
But most Europeans don't live in cities.
Huh? So your saying the majority of europeans live out in the bush somewhere on a farm hours away from civilization? Maybe in Croatia but in Italy, Germany, England, Denmark, etc the majority people pile into cities where everything is accessible and the jobs are.

Yes gas prices do effect people in europe but not the majority it really effects the farmers, cab drivers, truck drivers etc. As opposed to America where it effects everyone.

Last edited by nitokenshi; 06-03-2008 at 03:13 PM..
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Ireland
650 posts, read 818,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitokenshi View Post
Huh? So your saying the majority of europeans live out in the bush somewhere on a farm hours away from civilization?
You know I didn't say that. MANY of us live in towns and villages as well as farms, where we need cars for access to supermarkets, health care, airports, or even moving livestock to the local market.... because rail and bus aren't available, and those things are miles away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitokenshi View Post
Yes gas prices do effect people in europe but not the majority it really effects the farmers, cab drivers, truck drivers etc.
Sorry, dear, but that's just not the case, as I've already explained. It affects EVERYONE who has to purchase food, because food prices are soaring thanks to increased fuel costs. It affects anyone who wants to travel as taxi fares and airfares increase. It affects everyone who owns a business and has to pay more for their supplies as the shipping costs go up. I could go on and on. It's affecting EVERYONE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitokenshi View Post
As opposed to America where it effects everyone.
...even, as already mentioned, those living in NYC, SF, etc??

Last edited by LilyLaLa; 06-03-2008 at 03:43 PM.. Reason: clarity
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:19 PM
 
3,088 posts, read 5,872,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyLaLa View Post
You know I didn't say that. MANY of us live in towns and villages as well as farms, where we need cars for access to supermarkets, health care, airports, or even moving livestock to the local market.... because rail and bus aren't available, and those things are miles away.



Sorry, dear, but that's just not the case, as I've already explained. It affects EVERYONE who has to purchase food, because food prices are soaring thanks to increased fuel costs. It affects anyone who wants to travel as taxi fares and airfares increase. It affects everyone who owns a business and has to pay more for their supplies as the shipping costs go up. I could go on and on. It's affecting EVERYONE.



...even, as already mentioned, those living in NYC, SF, etc??
No it doesn't effect people in American cities with the public transportation more Americans live outside of those kinds of cities as opposed to in Europe. So America is more car dependent.

You did say most europeans do not live in cities just look at your quote.

Yes it does effect people like I said but not the majority. Sure everyone buys groceries but paying an extra 10 cents a month for bread is nothing compared to paying an extra $10 a week for gas.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Ireland
650 posts, read 818,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitokenshi View Post
America is more car dependent.
That was certainly true a generation ago. It's probably still true in some depressed areas of Europe, and I think it's still the perception of us from North Americans. But, out of all my friends, family, neighbours, and co-workers, only ONE (my grandmother-in-law) doesn't drive regularly for shopping or work or medical appointments. Most of our family lives in Dublin, Galway, or London, and shouldn't need the car, but they do, for various reasons.

I'm not dismissing your claim that Americans are suffering a lot by higher gas prices--far from it! I only wanted to point out that comparing the US and Europe's fuel prices wasn't as "crazy" as you might think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nitokenshi View Post
Yes it does effect people like I said but not the majority. Sure everyone buys groceries but paying an extra 10 cents a month for bread is nothing compared to paying an extra $10 a week for gas.
Yesterday I filled my tank with diesel and it cost seventy-eight euros : that's $120. Yeah, I cried. Then I drove over an hour to get to the nearest supermarket, where my week's shopping for a family of five came to 264 euros: that's $407. I was always able to bring home healthy food and keep it well under 200 euros until the past few weeks, even though I keep cutting back on the 'luxuries' like coffee or snacks, or newspapers---which are full of news about rising fuel prices!

As painful as it is to pay such prices, hopefully it will force many of us to find ways to cut back our fuel consumption. I've grown my own vegetables for years to help the grocery bill, and I work from home. I used to walk to church, but we've got small children now and it's three miles away. (Maybe we could sit on the roof on Sundays and use a telescope instead... )

We don't visit family as much we used to, because of the expense. That's a bit sad.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:26 PM
 
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Austria is experiencing a mini building boom of second garages... seems like just about every family outside of major population centers now has 2 cars... and the small one car family garage of 20 years ago doesn't cut it anymore...

Mom is no longer content to stay home all day and bake and clean the house... Mothers with children have just as many soccer practices, judo classes, PTA meetings and ski outings as anywhere else...
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:38 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
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The price of gallon in Sweden is around 8 - 9 dollars
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Colorado
4,268 posts, read 7,422,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I've noticed a distinct move towards larger, A/C equipped cars in German speaking countries... don't know about the others because I've only worked in Germany and Austria.

Several of my colleagues have recently purchased mini-van offerings from VW, Opel (GM) and Ford. Instead of having to take 2 cars to take along Oma and Opa... they can now travel in one.

I think the trend will continue as families become larger as the Euro increases in buying power.
Conversely, I've started noticing a lot more smaller cars in the US lately. Smaller hatchbacks like Honda Fit (aka Jazz) are selling pretty well here, alongside the bigger SUVs.
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Old 06-03-2008, 07:23 PM
 
14,208 posts, read 26,413,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilaili View Post
Conversely, I've started noticing a lot more smaller cars in the US lately. Smaller hatchbacks like Honda Fit (aka Jazz) are selling pretty well here, alongside the bigger SUVs.
I don't know about the rest of the US... but the trend in the Bay Area is definitely towards more Fuel Efficient...

There are 4 Prius and one Honda gas/electric in the parking lot where I work...
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Old 06-03-2008, 07:40 PM
 
3,088 posts, read 5,872,825 times
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Now I am not saying europeans do not drive or that they are not being effected by the price of gas. But compared to America they have it easy is what I am trying to get at. Europeans cars are more fuel efficient so those who drive still have it better then we do. Europeans have TONS of options when it comes to places to live with good public transportation. Americans only has a handful of options. I looked at the land rover uk website according to that site a land rover can get up to 34.4 mpg depending on which one you have though. A Chevrolet suburban gets 16 mpg.

Yea I am seeing a lot more small cars myself. I saw 3 smart cars in one day! The thing that sucks though is that every car that comes to America has to be beefed up to handle being hit by an SUV and then go through extreme emissions testing. That is why are cars get such bad MPG. A canadian smart car gets 60 mpg but our smart only gets 35. Also because of the strict emissions test we cannot get diesels. Even though diesel fuel is more expensive it makes up for the fact diesel cars are more fuel efficient.
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Old 06-03-2008, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Ireland
650 posts, read 818,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitokenshi View Post
But compared to America they have it easy is what I am trying to get at.
Ok--and I respect your opinion, if that's how you feel. I think we'd best "agree to disagree"...because a lot of us in Europe look at $4 gas in America and think, Wow, those lucky b******s!!

Even if a European car gets twice the mileage as you've pointed out, we're still paying twice the price at the pump: which makes us even (evenly screwed, IMO!) When I visited the US a few months ago, I was amazed at how low your cost of living was compared to ours, for food, utilities, taxes etc...but then, I do live in one of the world's most infuriatingly expensive countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitokenshi View Post
Europeans have TONS of options when it comes to places to live with good public transportation. Americans only has a handful of options.
That's interesting...because looking at it from the other side of the ocean, I thought the opposite was true. Perhaps we're just experiencing "the grass being greener on the other side"? On one hand, I'm rather proud we seem to have such a good reputation abroad! If only reality measured up...

For instance, my country has only one city with extensive public transportation and access to the rest of the country--Dublin. NO WAY can I afford Dublin, their houses cost five times what mine's worth. And even my sisters there drive because they find the public transport there inadequate to get them to work.

Now, if I want to go looking for another city to live in, I'd have to emigrate: Europe isn't a single country. If I want to speak English, my choices have shrunk to a list of three or four cities in the UK, none of which I can afford to live in.

Which is why so many of us move to America, shouting "$4 gas, woo HOOO!!". Of course, after all the good points you've made, I'll be very careful what type of car I buy, and I won't plan one of those iconic cross-country Route-66 trips... though it would be a shame to see that sort of travel end.

It was in the news not long ago, that a boy in Tennessee rode his horse to school because gas prices were so high...WHAT did the horse do all day while he was in school?
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