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Old 07-07-2008, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Virginia
97 posts, read 388,846 times
Reputation: 90

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crew Chief View Post
If my experiences in Germany are any indication, a foreigner living there might have a more difficult time finding employment. If you don't posess a German Meisterbriefe for your particular skill, getting hired is difficult to impossible. Otherwise, I'd imagine that people are the same anywhere; some will treat you nicely, others won't.

German Meisterbriefe = a degree in your chosen work field.


Isn't it the same here in the USA if you have a degree you get the better job.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Flint, TX
43 posts, read 141,714 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwarky View Post
To blacks living in Europe, what is the experience like?
I am not an African-American but an Asian-American. My point of view and experiences will be different than a person of African descent but I think I can speak to this issue.

My experience is primarily in France and I will confine my observations to that country.

France has a well deserved positive reputation as a country that welcomed African American artists, intellectuals, and entertainers in the days when Jim Crow was alive and well in the United States.

The contrast with the open, primitive, ugly racism that reached into the very highest levels of American society was astounding to all people of color who found their way to Paris. One friend of mine came to France as a driver for the Red Ball Express during World War II and never left. France was paradise compared to the hell that was his native Alabama.

But that was then and this is now.

Perhaps because we have come thru the fire here in the United States we are, in many ways, a more racially tolerant society in France. Then too, France had few non-whites during the days previously referenced. Tolerance is easy when it is directed at intellectuals and entertainers. It was only in the Post-war years when colonialism began its long recessional into history that large numbers of people from its former colonies flocked to Metropolitain France. Now the non-white population is a more representative of the full range of human talents and abilities. Construction workers and farmers now come from Chad and Tunisia and not just poets and philosophers.

Today Paris is ringed with dreary post war housing projects where the poor in general and the non-white in particular have been tucked away out of sight of the glittering boulevards and historic architecture. There, the unemployment rate reaches 40% and whole neighborhoods have become "no go" zones for the police. Violent crime which is almost non-existent in the city can be found in abundance in these banlieues.

A study conducted by the security services admits that police routinely display racist attitudes and that police brutality is commonplace.

The Institut National de la Statistique et des Études Économiques has determined that racist hiring practices are widespread and that job applications filed by people with non-French names are often simply thrown in the trash.

One sees few people of color in public life. It was only a few years ago that the first non-white news anchor appeared on French TV and then only because the absence on any such person was made a cause celebre by a single French politician.

There are almost no elected representatives in the Chambre of Deputies from Metopolitain France who are non-white despite the fact that non-whites comprise almost 10% of the population (I include Arabs and Berbers amonst the count of non-whites). President Sarkozy has recently appointed the first non-white Minister to a post other than one dealing with race relations. There is no French equivalent of Condi Rice, Charlie Rangel, or Colin Powell. Barak Obama would be unthinkable.

Moreover, political correctness is not the order of the day in France. Thus former President Chirac said that it was not racist to say that "immigrants" (which is to say Arabs) smelled bad because they did. It was only a few years ago that Jean Marie Le Pen, the French equivalent of David Duke (and perhaps even worse) ran second in the French presidential race.

None of this is to suggest that you, personally, will encounter any overt racism but you should be aware that there are problems.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:34 AM
 
Location: in purgurtory in London
3,722 posts, read 4,286,992 times
Reputation: 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rillifane View Post
I am not an African-American but an Asian-American. My point of view and experiences will be different than a person of African descent but I think I can speak to this issue.

My experience is primarily in France and I will confine my observations to that country.

France has a well deserved positive reputation as a country that welcomed African American artists, intellectuals, and entertainers in the days when Jim Crow was alive and well in the United States.

The contrast with the open, primitive, ugly racism that reached into the very highest levels of American society was astounding to all people of color who found their way to Paris. One friend of mine came to France as a driver for the Red Ball Express during World War II and never left. France was paradise compared to the hell that was his native Alabama.

But that was then and this is now.

Perhaps because we have come thru the fire here in the United States we are, in many ways, a more racially tolerant society in France. Then too, France had few non-whites during the days previously referenced. Tolerance is easy when it is directed at intellectuals and entertainers. It was only in the Post-war years when colonialism began its long recessional into history that large numbers of people from its former colonies flocked to Metropolitain France. Now the non-white population is a more representative of the full range of human talents and abilities. Construction workers and farmers now come from Chad and Tunisia and not just poets and philosophers.

Today Paris is ringed with dreary post war housing projects where the poor in general and the non-white in particular have been tucked away out of sight of the glittering boulevards and historic architecture. There, the unemployment rate reaches 40% and whole neighborhoods have become "no go" zones for the police. Violent crime which is almost non-existent in the city can be found in abundance in these banlieues.

A study conducted by the security services admits that police routinely display racist attitudes and that police brutality is commonplace.

The Institut National de la Statistique et des Études Économiques has determined that racist hiring practices are widespread and that job applications filed by people with non-French names are often simply thrown in the trash.

One sees few people of color in public life. It was only a few years ago that the first non-white news anchor appeared on French TV and then only because the absence on any such person was made a cause celebre by a single French politician.

There are almost no elected representatives in the Chambre of Deputies from Metopolitain France who are non-white despite the fact that non-whites comprise almost 10% of the population (I include Arabs and Berbers amonst the count of non-whites). President Sarkozy has recently appointed the first non-white Minister to a post other than one dealing with race relations. There is no French equivalent of Condi Rice, Charlie Rangel, or Colin Powell. Barak Obama would be unthinkable.

Moreover, political correctness is not the order of the day in France. Thus former President Chirac said that it was not racist to say that "immigrants" (which is to say Arabs) smelled bad because they did. It was only a few years ago that Jean Marie Le Pen, the French equivalent of David Duke (and perhaps even worse) ran second in the French presidential race.

None of this is to suggest that you, personally, will encounter any overt racism but you should be aware that there are problems.
I think it's a very accurate observation.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:48 AM
 
Location: in purgurtory in London
3,722 posts, read 4,286,992 times
Reputation: 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwarky View Post
To blacks living in Europe, what is the experience like?
We don't just live here and it's not an experience it's life. Life here is very different from America for blacks and whites, but I'd say the most disappointing aspect is we haven't made the great strides Blacks in the US have in all aspects of our lives. We aren't well represented in Government, Military nor in commerce and I'm talking household names and figures people know and remember. It's very rare I see a Black police officer. But we sure can sing and dance

Can you be more specific about what you want to know? I'd be happy to fill you in.
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:35 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 2,590,131 times
Reputation: 1565
Great post but I have some rectification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rillifane View Post
I am not an African-American but an Asian-American. My point of view and experiences will be different than a person of African descent but I think I can speak to this issue.

My experience is primarily in France and I will confine my observations to that country.

France has a well deserved positive reputation as a country that welcomed African American artists, intellectuals, and entertainers in the days when Jim Crow was alive and well in the United States.

The contrast with the open, primitive, ugly racism that reached into the very highest levels of American society was astounding to all people of color who found their way to Paris. One friend of mine came to France as a driver for the Red Ball Express during World War II and never left. France was paradise compared to the hell that was his native Alabama.

But that was then and this is now.

Perhaps because we have come thru the fire here in the United States we are, in many ways, a more racially tolerant society in France. Then too, France had few non-whites during the days previously referenced. Tolerance is easy when it is directed at intellectuals and entertainers. It was only in the Post-war years when colonialism began its long recessional into history that large numbers of people from its former colonies flocked to Metropolitain France. Now the non-white population is a more representative of the full range of human talents and abilities. Construction workers and farmers now come from Chad and Tunisia and not just poets and philosophers.

Today Paris is ringed with dreary post war housing projects where the poor in general and the non-white in particular have been tucked away out of sight of the glittering boulevards and historic architecture. There, the unemployment rate reaches 40% and whole neighborhoods have become "no go" zones for the police. Violent crime which is almost non-existent in the city can be found in abundance in these banlieues.
That's right but people tend to confuse banlieue with ghetto and non white with ghetto (we don't have ethnic ghetto in France, but social ghetto,)
Most non white don't live in ghetto.
You should know that banlieue = urban part ouytside the city proper, so like the english term of suburbs (note that many banlieue are urban, not suburbs, due at the stupid frozen limit of cities like Paris, everybody know that the real size of Paris city proper who be at least 6.5 million inhabitants)
You sould know one thing, the large majority of banlieue are middle class.
Inner Paris does have an higher poverty rate than banlieue.

Any way I think the majority of non white live in banlieue because 90% of the poplualtion of Lille 80 % of the population of Paris, 70% of the population of Lyon .... live in banlieue.
Toulouse and Marseille are cities were over the half the population live inbside the city proper, so the "ghettoes" are inside the city proper

The 20th arrondissement is not a banlieue as it is discrived in british media, it is an arrondissment of inner Paris, it is maybe non white majority but it is not a banlieue.


Quote:
A study conducted by the security services admits that police routinely display racist attitudes and that police brutality is commonplace.
That's right and it is even worse due at the high number of non white policemen in Paris that do exactly the same thing.
I hear in an TV program "Even the black polimen are racist against the blacks"
It is aslo explain by one thing with age the policeman can choose the place where they work, so in the worst district of big cities most agent are young and not enouth formated. 25 years old is the average in the 19 arrondissement.

Quote:
The Institut National de la Statistique et des Études Économiques has determined that racist hiring practices are widespread and that job applications filed by people with non-French names are often simply thrown in the trash.
That's right and it is absolutly shocking but I see big changement, nowadays non white with high jobs are now common in France.


Quote:
One sees few people of color in public life. It was only a few years ago that the first non-white news anchor appeared on French TV and then only because the absence on any such person was made a cause celebre by a single French politician.
The first black anchor in metroplitan France was in 1984 for Antenne 2
In 2006 it was the first prime time news anchor in France, and it is if we
considering that Prime time is only at 8 pm because Audree Poulvar was already the main news anchor in the 7.30 pm news of France 3.

In France main channel t presentator are not really diverse, but the situation is very different on cabled channels.

Quote:
There are almost no elected representatives in the Chambre of Deputies from Metopolitain France who are non-white despite the fact that non-whites comprise almost 10% of the population (I include Arabs and Berbers amonst the count of non-whites). President Sarkozy has recently appointed the first non-white Minister to a post other than one dealing with race relations. There is no French equivalent of Condi Rice, Charlie Rangel, or Colin Powell. Barak Obama would be unthinkable.
That's right but unlike USA we don't have black since the debut, it is only since the 1960's that there is a large number of black.
Note that between 1947 znd 1968 the Senate President was black and we were not far to have the head of France in 1969 when Charles de Gaulle resigned.
In the next decade with the end of the baby boom generation this problem will change.

It is not the arab and black the least representated in France media and politics, it is the east asian.
They are about 2% of population, they have least problem of racism and discrimination but who know the name of a asian news anchor or politics, when even if they are not really representated there is many black and arab politics and TV presentators a in France.


Quote:
Moreover, political correctness is not the order of the day in France. Thus former President Chirac said that it was not racist to say that "immigrants" (which is to say Arabs) smelled bad because they did. It was only a few years ago that Jean Marie Le Pen, the French equivalent of David Duke (and perhaps even worse) ran second in the French presidential race.
To said something that would shock many people the people who vote Le Pen would vote for Mc Cain in USA.
They are agaisnt the inmmigration but few have the idea of a white supremacie.
But honestly I don't care of Le Pen, its party is dead with him (Front Mational is nothing without Le Pen, due at his charisma), they don't have enouth money for their hq located in Paris western suburbs.
I really happy of this situation. Bon debarras

Quote:
None of this is to suggest that you, personally, will encounter any overt racism but you should be aware that there are problems.
Yes there is a big racist problem, France is far to be the paradise but it is that bad as we see in media.
There is alos many positive thing
The interracial couple are more common in France than in USA, just take a little trip in Paris, Lyon, Lille, Toulouse, Marseille to cite few cities that can be comparable at american cities in diversity.

The first to be shocked by a non white majority french soccer team were generally not french (of course there is racist everywhere, Le Pen is an exemple even if it main lin is not the white suprematie), it is in Italian, British, American, Canadian, Mexican, Iranian, Japanese... forum that I see comment racist comment about our team, like "this not an european team but an african team" "Most players have been stolen at Africa", as a half black french I astonished that people could not imagine that they were born in France, as the majority of black living in France.

I am 18 and I always living with youth were racism is not far to be inexistant (see my comment in the previous paragraph about the interracial couple).
The problem of racist is mostly with the baby boom generation who actually control the country (Economy, politics, TV).
So I never faced racism, never been controled by the police (I see them often but the prefer white chav youth at me I don't know why ).

As said Raggy dee Ann we are not really represented (it is worse in France than in UK) but it will change in the next decade.
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Old 07-25-2008, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Ghent, Belgium
2 posts, read 11,331 times
Reputation: 11
Black people are accepted in Belgium just fine! We've got a lot of people from Congo because of our colonial background and most of the people live in Brussels. There are still a lot of people living in poverty in Brussels but that has to do with low education in their home country (opposed to the high education here) and the fact that most of them only know French or English, and Brussels is a city with two languages (Dutch & French) so people have problems getting a job. but high educated people, no matter the color of their skin can get a job, even if they wear a headscarf or a cross to work
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