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Old 07-21-2008, 09:42 PM
 
11 posts, read 22,080 times
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Hello!

I have questions about those cities:
1)Which one is the LEAST multicultural (ie fewer colored ppl).Caucasian Muslims are OK.
2)In which there's MORE demand for single men (or should I ask more easygoing females)
3) In which people have the best attitude to foreigners

My expirience in the US was great,but in Vancouver it's kinda ugly,so I'm more cautious now...
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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Isn't everybody colored?
But to answer your question, Wikipedia generally has a section dedicated to the demographics of searched city.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:47 PM
 
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No,Colored means-Non-Caucasian,ie Black or Yellow.

Demographics-it's not a reliable source.Canada is 85% White statistically,and come here to Burnaby,BC and take a look.Or even to Vancouver.Obviously,if you take rich neighborhoods and country side,then the proportion of the Colored wouldn't be so bad,but in a real life for an average people-it's totally different.
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:37 AM
 
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I have been to all of them.

All those cities have a multi-cultural element. The foreigners in Barcelona are mostly South American and North African (mostly Caucasian). I saw many west and central African blacks too.

There are many foreigners in Stockholm. A lot of them are non-Caucasian. Many Muslims too. Sweden, because of its long social democratic rule have taken a lot of asylum seekers. I believe the system paralyse ambitious hard-working people with its welfare system. Changes are seen with the new government in power. The Nordic model is not entirely gone though. Immigrants are seen but not heard. They are viewed as poor children that should be taken care of rather than productive members of society that can bring the country forward. Keep in mind this is not the attitude of all Swedes. It's mostly the result of leftists politics despite what they may want to accomplish. A lot of the immigrants (but far from all) live in suburbs. Keep in mind unlike USA affluent neighbourhoods are in the inner city. Instead of "white flight", immigrants have been put (or moved where other people from their home country or relatives live) in certain suburbs. Middle class immigrants from developing countries tend to emigrate to Canada and Australia.

Dublin has a considerable East Asian population.

Vienna got a lot of Turks who came for work in the 1960's. There are also many immigrants from former Yugoslavia. A few blacks can be seen.

I would say you get the best attitude towards foreigners based on an indifference to looks in Barcelona. Culturally the Catalans are proud. They want to emphasise their difference from the rest of Spain so they can be xenophobic against anyone non-Catalan. Ireland has become a country of immigrants from having been quite a poor European country with many emigrants in the 19th century moving to Liverpool, Manchester, London, and North America. Dublin is trying to cope with the relatively recent foreign influx. Lately a lot of people from the new EU countries in Eastern Europe (particularly Poland and the Baltic countries) settled in Dublin.

Barcelona is the city they speak the least English. Then, in ascending order more and better English is spoken in Vienna, Stockholm, and obviously Dublin.

I would say non-Caucasians are more likely to face subtle (including instutionalised discrimination) and racism (or ethno-centrism) in Stockholm and Vienna. People in these two cities are more reserved although I would say the Vienesse are more direct. They may utter something rude when the unwanted person have left the scene. There is a small white pride nationalism in Swedish and Austrian politics you will not find in Ireland. Irish nationalism have more to do with being independent. Spanish football supporters are known for their "monkey chants" against black football players.

Where in the US have you been? I know Vancouver has a significant East Asian population.
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:50 PM
 
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Thanks for a detailed reply!
There're many S.Asian (Indians) here in Surrey,BC.Though they're Caucasians,but very dark and too different from European people.
Therefore I wouldn't consider them really kinda people to live amongst.
Though I would prefer them over Blacks or Chinese.
I lived mostly in NYC (especially Brooklyn,NY).
Honestly I'm tired of multi-kulti.Some people like it.Good for them.I don't.
I could give my reasons why,but it's probably a waste of time.
So Vienna is the most racist and least colored city of all of them,if I understood right?I am Caucasian,so I'm not worried about racism,more about xenophobia,I guess.German is probably an easier language to learn,comparing to Swedish.And more useful as well.So that compensates their lack of good English,I guess.I met lots of Irish people in the US and frankly I would MUCH rather live among Deutsch ones (that I met a lot in PA and western NY).Though I heard that US Germans and those in Europe and totally different.I wonder if there's any difference between Germans and Austrians?
As for Barcelona...I'm afraid that it's more of a Mediterranean city and less european,if you know what I mean...I'm not even talking about wages or living standards,but mostly the culture,traditions and attitudes.But maybe I'm wrong...
I also wonder in which out of these 3 cities-Barcelona,Vienna and Stockholm,it would be easiest to get a simple job for someone who speaks great English and poor local language.
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:56 AM
 
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Hi Stapleton
I'm French but with German culture (East), and I can definitely tell you not to worry, there is pretty little difference (the accent , probably) between Germans and Austrians, and most Austrians-especially in Vienna-DO speak English!
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Old 08-06-2008, 06:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stapleton3000 View Post
Thanks for a detailed reply!
You're most welcome! I wanted to reply earlier.

Quote:
There're many S.Asian (Indians) here in Surrey,BC.Though they're Caucasians,but very dark and too different from European people.
Therefore I wouldn't consider them really kinda people to live amongst.
Though I would prefer them over Blacks or Chinese.
Europeans are very varied. It's clear Europeans, North Africans and Middle Easterners (including Afghanistan) are predominantly white. It becomes more difficult with Pakistan, India, and even more Bangladesh. South Asians aren't considered (socially) white in the United Kingdom. The South Indians (such as Kerala) are usually very dark-skinned. South Indians can be Veddoid (more in Tamil Nadu), and some even Negrito.

In the UK census they have White British, White Irish, White Other. South Asians have their own category. It's even questionable whether South Asians are white in traditional physical anthropology. You need to understand South Asia is heterogenous even though laymen may see them all as the same. There are many ethnic groups and different cultures in south Asia. The Indian nation is a modern creation by a few intellectuals.

There are relatively fair people in northwestern India. Kashmir in particular. There are also people in northern Pakistan that are white. They are Pashtuns. Imran Khan is an example, and he is by far not one of the lightest. I don't think there's a correlation between behaviour and racial type. A blonde Nordic looking Lombard from northern Italy tend to be louder than a short, dark, round-headed Norwegian from the west coast. That has to do with environment.

Chinese people straight from China tend to be rather insular. Even those who have lived abroad several years tend to congregate together in certain neighbourhoods. They also have a collectivist mindset in my experience.

Quote:
I lived mostly in NYC (especially Brooklyn,NY).
Honestly I'm tired of multi-kulti.Some people like it.Good for them.I don't.
I could give my reasons why,but it's probably a waste of time.
You will find emigrating to most western European countries won't be an escape from multi-culturalism. Political correctness has taken over most of western Europe. Enoch Powell warned people of multi-culturalism in the late 1960's, yet he was accussed of racism.

I don't mind knowing your reasons.

Quote:
So Vienna is the most racist and least colored city of all of them,if I understood right?I am Caucasian,so I'm not worried about racism,more about xenophobia,I guess.
Austrians are among the most racist and xenophobic people in Europe. You should be alright as a white person. Americans tend to stand out anyway because of the way they dress and act in public.

I recommend you read the Xenophobe's guide books to various nations. They are funny too.

Quote:
German is probably an easier language to learn,comparing to Swedish.And more useful as well.So that compensates their lack of good English,I guess.
It's easier learning also other Scandinavian languages if you know Swedish. Norwegians and Danes will also understand you. You will find it more difficult to understand Danish than Norwegian (although it depends if it's bokmål or nynorska). Other than that German is spoken in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, and by many more people. The older generation (the younger may speak more English) of central-east Europeans also speak German. They speak more German than English in Hungary. I think it's the same in Czech rep.

Quote:
I met lots of Irish people in the US and frankly I would MUCH rather live among Deutsch ones (that I met a lot in PA and western NY).Though I heard that US Germans and those in Europe and totally different.
Americans are generally speaking more conservative and religious. Many European minorities, whether persecuted or not, emigrated. I would say German-Americans I met are a little warmer than Germans. The same can be said of most north-central Europeans that are more aloof in Europe.

I have no idea why you would rather living among Germans. Is it because the Irish are mostly catholic? I'm curious to learn how you think.

Quote:
I wonder if there's any difference between Germans and Austrians?
Yes, Germans in the central and northern part are mostly Protestants whereas the south is more Catholic. The Bavarians are close to Austrians. The southern Germans and Austrians are also supposed to be more family-oriented and warmer. They also have something called Gemütlichkeit. You can translate it to cheerfulness. There's a similar Dutch word, Gezelligheid, and it has the same meaning. The Dutch are also Catholic in the south, and Protestants in the north. The northern Dutch are closer to English, on the one hand, and southern Scandinavians on the other. Northern Germans are also quite cold like Scandinavians.

I would say Germans are more direct if they dislike somebody. Scandinavians tend to be like the English, polite, diplomatic and indirect in their ways. I prefer the German way. It's not as cunning.

Quote:
As for Barcelona...I'm afraid that it's more of a Mediterranean city and less european,if you know what I mean...I'm not even talking about wages or living standards,but mostly the culture,traditions and attitudes.But maybe I'm wrong...
Barcelona is Mediterranean. It's without a doubt European. The city architecture is very much influenced by Gaudi. Look up his name. The people are not like the notion many Americans (or even north Europeans) have of Mediterraneans. They aren't very loud. It's not chaotic.

Barcelona is popular among (mostly young) Europeans as a city to party in until the wee hours. You should watch the film L'Auberge Espagnole.

I personally didn't like Barcelona. If I want palm trees and Mediterranean climate, I rather live in California.

Quote:
I also wonder in which out of these 3 cities-Barcelona,Vienna and Stockholm,it would be easiest to get a simple job for someone who speaks great English and poor local language.
Most likely Stockholm, in customer service or IT-related jobs. You can contact some recruitment agencies. Except certain service jobs over the phone you will find they will ask for English more in higher posititions. In the end you will have to or it is easier and better for yourself to learn a bit of the local language to deal with some colleagues and customers. The best is if you're self-employed, although I wouldn't recommend starting a business in a country with such high taxes.

Many Swedes work in Norway because of the higher salaries. The expenses in Norway are also higher. Taxes are considerably lower. I think you should also consider moving to Norway. Norway is more rural. You may find it boring if you're from a large city. I don't know your personality. Even Oslo is small compared to Stockholm and Copenhagen.

Let me know if I can be of any more help.

Last edited by internat; 08-06-2008 at 07:11 AM..
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:04 AM
 
1,149 posts, read 5,246,146 times
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Are you from Elsass-Lothringen?

The accent is certainly different in Austria. So is it in Bavaria though. They say the "best" (as in standard) German is spoken in Hannover.

Are you saying there are no cultural differences between Catholics and Protestants in Germany and Austria?

People in Vienna speak little English. I was there only a few months ago over Easter. It might be better than some other European countries. But it's definitely much more difficult to get by speaking only English than in Netherlands and Scandinavia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
Hi Stapleton
I'm French but with German culture (East), and I can definitely tell you not to worry, there is pretty little difference (the accent , probably) between Germans and Austrians, and most Austrians-especially in Vienna-DO speak English!
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Sverige och USA
702 posts, read 2,796,898 times
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Since I haven't been to Barcelona, Vienna or Dublin I can't really speak for them, but I feel somewhat that Stockholm is not as multicultural as some of the larger cities. Most of the immigrants to Sweden are from the middle east and lots from other parts of Europe but there are comparatively very few Asians, South Americans, Africans, etc. Of course, I'm judging Stockholm by comparing it to American cities such as Boston, NYC and European cities such as London, Paris, Amsterdam. These are all much larger cities and may not be a fair comparison.

As for not speaking Swedish and getting a job, it will have to be a very specialized high-level job or a low wage job that doesn't require much customer interaction. A lot of the Swedes speak decent English and will be more desirable than someone who is only an English speaker.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:48 AM
 
1,149 posts, read 5,246,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey View Post
Since I haven't been to Barcelona, Vienna or Dublin I can't really speak for them, but I feel somewhat that Stockholm is not as multicultural as some of the larger cities. Most of the immigrants to Sweden are from the middle east and lots from other parts of Europe but there are comparatively very few Asians, South Americans, Africans, etc. Of course, I'm judging Stockholm by comparing it to American cities such as Boston, NYC and European cities such as London, Paris, Amsterdam. These are all much larger cities and may not be a fair comparison.
Around 12 % of the Swedish population are born abroad.

True, there aren't many East Asians in Sweden. Some were adopted (in the late 1970's and early 1980's) from South Korea, others are a few Chinese who own restaurants or other small businesses. More have come to Stockholm in recent times. Also more Russians, and a few Germans. Most of the new East Asians seem to be students.

Middle Eastern immigrants in Sweden mostly live in a few suburbs. Those who try to accomplish something beyond what is mediocre are seen at with suspicious eyes because of the laws of Jante. I think the OP should be aware this may happen even to an American. He needs to understand these things. He may not be aware of it unless he's a Swedish-American from Minnesota.

There are also sub-Saharan Africans in Sweden. Many Somalians too.

Sweden also got a considerable amount of Chilean immigrants that fled because of the Pinochet dictatorship.

London and Paris are much larger than Stockholm. Amsterdam is smaller, although it does receive more tourists and is more multi-cultural and liberal.

Quote:
As for not speaking Swedish and getting a job, it will have to be a very specialized high-level job or a low wage job that doesn't require much customer interaction. A lot of the Swedes speak decent English and will be more desirable than someone who is only an English speaker.
I basically meant the same with the kind of jobs he can get. You're right it's often not enough to only speak English as there's not a shortage of people. It's more important to know several languages. It really depends on the company and which market they target.
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