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View Poll Results: Is illegal immigration a major problem in Europe?
Yes, but our government is slowly taking care of it. 5 6.76%
Yes, and although the government may not be doing much, the legal citizens are fed up and are speaking out. 23 31.08%
Yes, but no one is doing much about it. 33 44.59%
No, it is not a very big problem. 13 17.57%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-25-2008, 11:56 AM
 
Location: suburbia
595 posts, read 1,931,880 times
Reputation: 220

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First off, I had posted a thread similar to this on the actual "Immigration" forum, but it seems that no one cares and all they want to talk about is America.

Soooo, I came over here to try see what your guys' opinions are.

I have only recently realized how bad it is over there, and I hate to say this, but it looks as if it may be worse than what America is facing right now.

What do you guys think? Does this issue concern you?

Is it really a big problem, or are
these YouTube videos making it look worse than it really is?

If it really is this big of an issue, is you're government doing anything about it, or do they just pretend like nothings happening? (like they are over here)

Last edited by illinoisboy; 07-25-2008 at 12:24 PM..

 
Old 07-25-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Toronto
217 posts, read 96,473 times
Reputation: 68
By the time Europe finally decides to do something about this problem it will already be too late. The spineless Euro politicians have to lose their political correctness and put laws in place that do not allow immigrants in.
 
Old 07-29-2008, 09:44 PM
 
266 posts, read 821,661 times
Reputation: 133
I love it. I have many European friends that used to complain about American "social injustices." The images they used to get was from the ultra liberal media. But once they came here to visit, they saw for themselves how certain groups behave and live in s***holes.
 
Old 07-29-2008, 11:20 PM
 
Location: rain city
2,654 posts, read 7,324,906 times
Reputation: 3682
Immigration is a sticky issue. In the US we're all immigrants of one kind or another.

I think there is really no way to stop immigration anywhere. People have always, and will always, move along to places where they perceive they will have a better life. Who can blame them?

I think all kinds of immigration have enriched America. But it isn't a fast process. The first generation of immigrants are often of low education and native speakers of a foreign language, and as adults never manage to master English. They are often a drag on the economy and wages. But their children, first generation Americans, are often very motivated, highly successful, and an enrichment to the the culture and the economy. The second generation, the grandchildren of the immigrants, are usually full-fledged tax-paying standard issue citizens. It takes time. A couple of generations.

Europeans are new to this kind of mass immigration. Europe is now on the first wave. They're seeing the foreign speaking foreign dressing weirdos who don't fit in and seem to be taking taking taking from the system and contributing--nothing but trouble.

It's hard to deal with, but I think all the Muslims and middle easterners and Africans who are flowing unstoppably into Europe now, will be an asset a couple of generations down the line. Unfortunately at present, they look like nothing but a plague of problems. Wait. It will get better.
 
Old 07-30-2008, 08:48 PM
 
957 posts, read 1,994,289 times
Reputation: 565
Why does Europe need immigrants? Is Europe now a "continent of immigrants"? How did European civilization survive for thousands of years without immigrants?
 
Old 07-30-2008, 11:43 PM
 
266 posts, read 821,661 times
Reputation: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by azoria View Post
Immigration is a sticky issue. In the US we're all immigrants of one kind or another.
I think there is really no way to stop immigration anywhere. People have always, and will always, move along to places where they perceive they will have a better life. Who can blame them?
I think all kinds of immigration have enriched America. But it isn't a fast process. The first generation of immigrants are often of low education and native speakers of a foreign language, and as adults never manage to master English. They are often a drag on the economy and wages. But their children, first generation Americans, are often very motivated, highly successful, and an enrichment to the the culture and the economy. The second generation, the grandchildren of the immigrants, are usually full-fledged tax-paying standard issue citizens. It takes time. A couple of generations.

Europeans are new to this kind of mass immigration. Europe is now on the first wave. They're seeing the foreign speaking foreign dressing weirdos who don't fit in and seem to be taking taking taking from the system and contributing--nothing but trouble.

It's hard to deal with, but I think all the Muslims and middle easterners and Africans who are flowing unstoppably into Europe now, will be an asset a couple of generations down the line. Unfortunately at present, they look like nothing but a plague of problems. Wait. It will get better.
Certain European countries already had experience with immigration for decades. Certain groups just don't want to assimilate and wind up being much more of a drag then anything positive. And there's the issue of illegal immigrants who leetch off their host countries. Immigration needs to be controlled vigorously such countries like South Korea and Japan have very few problems with illegal immigrants compared to US or Western Europe.
 
Old 07-31-2008, 02:08 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 3,560,113 times
Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoisboy View Post
First off, I had posted a thread similar to this on the actual "Immigration" forum, but it seems that no one cares and all they want to talk about is America.

Soooo, I came over here to try see what your guys' opinions are.

I have only recently realized how bad it is over there, and I hate to say this, but it looks as if it may be worse than what America is facing right now.

What do you guys think? Does this issue concern you?

Is it really a big problem, or are
these YouTube videos making it look worse than it really is?

If it really is this big of an issue, is you're government doing anything about it, or do they just pretend like nothings happening? (like they are over here)
This is actually an issue that all industrialized wealthy countries are having a problem with, not just Europe and North America. Like America, Europeans DON'T teach their kids a healthy work ethic at home and hence the attitude of looking down their nose towards the so-called meanial labor jobs. Those jobs have to be done by someone. So ALL governments realize that no matter, legal/illegal , they need the workers badly or the country/economy falls apart. There's nothing wrong with vocational training for trade type jobs. I mean work is work and you just do it. But somehow certain types of work in the wealthy countries is a stench to many sense of smell. They ALL expect to get free government handouts for schooling, then government handouts for job placement, but only in cushy IT/Office Jobs, or even Factory Union jobs with all the mouth watering benefits/handouts.

Then the racist attitudes come out of the woodwork when the Natives of any of these countries notice the cultural differences in various nieghborhoods and they resent it. In the age of the "We Are The World-Multiculturalism" philosophy pimped by secular progressive governments, here's an about face attitude from a Swedish Judge who deals with immigration issues and says 90% of her colleagues feel the same way as she does about multiculturalism as a failure.

The Local - Judge wrote anti-immigrant letters to Prime Minister

The Judge is a one Bodil Schibli who sat on Panels which passed judgements in a number of cases involving immigrants, including twelve cases in 2007.

She's being called on the carpet for writting Anti-Immigrant letters to the Swedish Prime Minister, Fredrik Reinfeldt imploring the government to "protect it's own people" against, "these fanatical immigrants, who really have no reason to be here, other than to be supported by taxpayers". She also wrote that Islam should be "forbidden from further spreading in our country".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodil_Schibli_Lay_Judge
"There has never been a Multicultural Society that has worked - only in the minds of Politicians".
Wow! How interesting! And we have been told this is the typical United States attitude. But lets be fair and honest here, it's the attitude inside of every well off country
 
Old 09-21-2008, 04:53 PM
 
938 posts, read 2,569,098 times
Reputation: 726

YouTube - Immigrants in Malmo Sweden
 
Old 09-22-2008, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
5,347 posts, read 6,664,764 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by azoria View Post
Immigration is a sticky issue. In the US we're all immigrants of one kind or another.
This is a comment I've never really understood, and I'm American. We're not immigrants, our ancestors were. And if you want to go back as far as when Europeans first colonized the Americas, you could go back even farther than that can say England is just a bunch of immigrants too because after all, it's been invaded by Romans, Normans, etc. And you could continue to go back farther than that and just say all of Europe is just a bunch of immigrants as well because human civilization originated from Africa and migrated out to populate the rest of the world.

But the fact is, we don't go back that far at all because the times are different, government is different, society is different, population is different, economy is different, etc. Yes, our ancestors were immigrants - that doesn't mean the government should treat current immigrants the way our ancestors were treated.

Quote:
I think there is really no way to stop immigration anywhere. People have always, and will always, move along to places where they perceive they will have a better life. Who can blame them?
No one is blaming them but a government has to do what is right and best for their country, not for foreign immigrants. There was a time when immigration was what was best for certain countries like America and England. But that is not necessarily the case anymore.
 
Old 09-22-2008, 08:26 AM
 
1,148 posts, read 4,119,314 times
Reputation: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by King0fthehill View Post
There are social problems with immigrants who feel left out from mainstream society. It's the same with many black youth in U.S inner cities.

One can also not deny there's institutionalised racism in Sweden. It's well known immigrants that apply for jobs with a Swedish name have a better chance to get an interview. Some of these immigrants were brought up in Sweden and speak perfect Swedish. America is much better in this respect. Only blacks and Mexicans are still discriminated in USA, whereas a lot of the immigrants in Sweden would have much better opportunities to prosper in USA.

I think the problem lies in the socialist thinking of feeling sorry for immigrants. The social democrats, and the leftists even more, treat adults as if they were kids. The welfare society breeds laziness, not just among immigrants mind you. The new politics of the centre-right wing parties are trying to change the path. It will take time. Sweden still has the Nordic model, and as it looks now the socialists might take the power again in the next election.
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