Spain vs. USA (Dutch, genetics, haplogroup, population)

[Eduardo983]

Spaniard is not the adjective in Spain. "Spanish" is the adjective for Spanish nationals. What happens is that many U.S. Americans believe that Spanish means Mexican

75-95% of British and Irish (genetic) matches derive from Iberia (Spain)

Spanish, Irish and Britons are closely related (genetically). Spain is home of the purest western European group which is the Basque one. They have the highest amount of western European genes. Genetically, in terms of Y-chromosomes and Mt-DNA, inhabitants of Britain and Ireland are closely related to the Basques.

Northern Spaniards, specially Galicians, Asturians, Cantabrians and Basques, along with Irish, Welsh and Bretons show the highest frequency of the Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup R1b in Western Europe; some 90% to 95% of Basque males have this haplogroup.

Irish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Suzie,

In western Europe the majority of the population have dark/light brown hair....again.... dark/light brown hair is the most common hair color in western Europe.

I think (correct me if i m wrong) you belong to the group of people in U.S. who thinks that "true" Western Europeans look somehow like the Blonde Blue eyed Sami ethnic people that is present in Scandinavian countries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people#Culture ....wrong wrong wrong...

The majority of white people in western Europe (including Spain) has brown/dark hair. (imagine Colin Farrel..or Harry potter...or Pierce Brosnan "aka" James Bond).

Demographically speaking, Spain is very homogenous. Now that EU allows free movement betwen member states...many EU nationals are relocating and marrying other EU nationals in different countries... The EU is definitely an exciting melting pot of European people (Mediterranean, celtic, nordic, etc).

[Neuling]

This map shows that the Spaniards and Portuguese are much more mixed than the Basques. And if the map were more detailed the differences would be even greater.

Apart from that, on the Wiki page you cited it also says:

"However, with the recent discovery of the L21 single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) present in R1b (y-chromosome DNA haplogroup) males, it appears that the Irish have no substantial genetic link with the Basques or those of the Iberian peninsula, thus placing into question the Milesian invasion theory. L21 (R1b1b2a1a2f) was discovered in late 2008, is common in the British Isles, and can be found in France, Germany and Scandinavia with considerable frequency. Most samples from Iberia show that the L21 marker is rare there. L21's presence in Switzerland and Southern Germany also attests to its identity as a Continental Celtic marker, thus linking the Irish with their Iron Age forebears."

It seems the research is not finished, so we should not jump to conclusions. Nor is it desirable to be pure in the first place. Mixed peoples are healthier and more interesting frankly

[suzie02]

Originally Posted by Eduardo983

Suzie,

In western Europe the majority of the population have dark/light brown hair....again.... dark/light brown hair is the most common hair color in western Europe.

I do not know what you consider western Europe. But it doesn't matter the reason this discussion got started was because someone said that we Spaniards pride ourselves in the purity of our blood. That is not the case because Spaniards are a mixed race.

Originally Posted by Eduardo983

I think (correct me if i m wrong) you belong to the group of people in U.S. who thinks that "true" Western Europeans look somehow like the Blonde Blue eyed Sami ethnic people that is present in Scandinavian countries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people#Culture ....wrong wrong wrong...

I have never bothered to make up my mind of what true anything is. I grew up without labels. And I really do care for them now.

[pigeonhole]

So immigrants are necessary here because younger generations only want to be public servants, bank cashiers or "Engineers".

Worst than that (but it's the same in the US and everywhere in the Western world) : they want the latest iPod, the latest moped (oh boy are they noisy with this thing, it deters a lot the quality of life in Spanish towns), to prance on FB, to have their 15' of wharol-esque celebrity in BigBrother& al. (and maybe the luck of getting a lot of dough just showing off their ass to the public and doing the jackasses),Fiesta, and to leave mummy's-daddy's at 40 (if they have not O'D)- or for the girls, do the ****-.
As for the elite, it's the people you can see
on the ski slopes at Baqueira Beret, where maybe they'll have a glimpse of los Principes (the heir to the throne, Prince Felipe, married a social climber,a tve anchorwoman of petty bourgeois origin, he even wanted to marry a norwegian model before, that was a bit too much for traditional Spanish royalty). They are mostly heirs to well-to-do families, make engineering studies, and will be hired in dadd's bank or corporation.It's called nepotism.
A privileged, void, and lacking of moral values generation of young Spaniards.
And their excuse is always "Franco", what BS! The Caudillo died in 1975, they weren't even born!
And I didn't mention the internecine feuds between Spanish nationalisms, the Catalans and Basque hating the Castillans, etc. Not a nice picture.
Maybe one day, Spain will implode like former Yougoslavia?

[Leovigildo]

Pigeon

No, no implosion like Yugoslavia. It's all make believe.
Politicians here are not for real.
Yes, Letizia is a social climber.
The Norwegian girl, that was a real woman.
Yes, Franco, "the monster".
They even blame him for making Dams.

[Leovigildo]

Originally Posted by Neuling

Spaniards are mixed people, naturally, considering all those migrations. The problem is what one considers a 'race'.
Green eyes can originate from all kinds of ethnic ancestors. Berbers from North Africa (Berbers formed the bulk of the Muslim population on the peninsula, not Arabs), Celtic and Germanic tribes from beyond the Pyrenees...
And who knows what the original Iberian people looked like, they were pre-Indo-Aryan...

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North African haploids are less abondant in Spain than in Italy, for example. The area of Spain with less North African haploids is Andalusia because Ethnic cleasing performed by the Inquisition.

Berbers are caucasics, by the way.

The original Iberians, Keltic-Iberians and Keltics looked exactly the same as most of the Spanish nowdays.

The impact of invasions is minimal, except for the large Indoeuropean invasion that took place some 4000 years ago, R1b.

Spanish people are a Etnia, the union of different tribes and groups, most living in Spain during the last 8000 years.

All Western Nations are Etnias.

[Leovigildo]

I do not know what you consider western Europe. But it doesn't matter the reason this discussion got started was because someone said that we Spaniards pride ourselves in the purity of our blood. That is not the case because Spaniards are a mixed race.

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All Europeans are mixed. No pure races since the Indoeuropean Invasions 4 to 5.000 years ago.

Yes, there are people that brag about pure Spanish race, just as nonsensical as people that presume of pure German race.

But Spanish, or Europeans, are not mixed with Non-Caucasics. If you are referring to that, they are not mixed.

[Neuling]

Well, nobody here said that Spaniards were mixed with Chinese or Bantus, at least not yet That is why I said it depends on what one considers a race. There is a reason why scientists have long abandonded that term, it makes no sense due to its low resolution. We were talking about ethnic groups, which I suppose you mean by etnias. But especially in the case of Spain you probably know that ethnic group is a rather disputed term, depending on one's political and other attitudes. Some Basques for instance consider themselves a different ethnic group, others don't. I can understand the Spanish government when it avoids speaking of different ethnic groups, it would only back up separatists.
Gee, I'm really looking forward to the time when humans will have mixed so much nobody knows their ethnic group anymore Unfortunately I won't live to see that...

[Leovigildo]

Neuling

No, "Ethnic groups" are not a disputed term or a issue. Spanish nationalism is not based on race or ethnic groups anymore, that was the case 80 years ago. For example, the President of Catalonia is an Andalusian and the President of the Basque Country is not Basque.

There are no different Ethnic Groups in Spain. The Basques are in fact spreaded all around Spain and most Spanish are most or less the same due to "La Reconquista".

The only real difference is between Catalonia, Valencia and Aragon and the rest of Spain. Those territories are ethnically related to France, Northern Italy and Switzerland and not to the rest of Spain. This is due to immigration from those countries.

Spain in fact has less mixture than Germany. No Slavs, Huns and Asiatic invaders here.

The only different Ethnic Group are the Gipsies, they came 500 years ago from India and they dodged the Inquisition by asserting that they were "Good Catholics"... The Inquisition expelled quite a lot of them, they live in Turkey now, along with Sephardic Jews.

[Eduardo983]

Originally Posted by suzie02

I do not know what you consider western Europe. But it doesn't matter the reason this discussion got started was because someone said that we Spaniards pride ourselves in the purity of our blood. That is not the case because Spaniards are a mixed race.



I have never bothered to make up my mind of what true anything is. I grew up without labels. And I really do care for them now.

To the OP,

Spain has an excellent mass transit system, great food (healthy), beautiful architecture, walkable cities (don´t need a car), universal health care, and salaries that let you get what you need in order to have a decent life. Average salaries: €12,000 to €18,000/year (Average Joe and Jane who doesn´t have a bachelors degree). Life expectancy at Birth (80.05 years)

Traditional working hours in Spain are Monday to Friday from 9:00until 13:30. After a Siesta , people return to work from 16:30 until 19:30.

All employees have 1 full month of vacation/year plus numerous national holidays .


Suzie,

Spain is located in western Europe.




Hauling,

In human genetics, Haplogroup R1b is the most frequently occurring Y-chromosome haplogroup in Western Europe.

More specifically, R1b's frequency is highest in the populations of Atlantic Europe and, due to European emigration, in North America, South America, and Australia.

The incidence of R1b is 70% or more in parts of north and western England, northern Spain, northern Portugal, western France, Wales, Scotland.

In Ireland and the Basque Country its frequency exceeds 90%.

R1b's incidence declines gradually with distance from these areas but it is still common across the central areas of Europe.

R1b is the most frequent haplogroup in Germany, is common in southern Scandanavia and in Italy.




Highest frequencies:

Basque 92%, Irish 90%, Welsh 86%, Northern Portuguese 80%, Scottish 77%, English 75%, Belgians 70%, Spanish 65%, Dutch 65%, Southern Portuguese 60%, Bashkirs 55%, German 45%, Hausa 40%, Czechs and Slovaks 36%, Armenians 36%, Italian 36%, Turkmens 35%.


The population of the British Isles descend mainly from ancient populations of the Iberian Peninsula (Modern Spain and Portugal)


Sources:

Genetic History of Europe:
Genetic history of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Genetic History of the British Isles
Genetic history of the British Isles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia