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Hmmm....maybe America and France having this issue is like your grandpa and your grandma fighting....and forgive if this isn't perfect but I was just thinking of this as I went along....
Gramps is tougher, but Grandma is the better cook. He thinks she's weak and can't make decisions. She thinks he could use some culture and stop eating Spam so much, and should stop getting in bar fights just to prove he's right all the time.
Gramps likes country music, Grandma likes opera.
Gramps thinks people should look after themselves and the government should stay out of people's business. Grandma thinks people need a lot of looking after and figures she'll help out even when it's not welcome since she knows what's best. Gramps thinks she takes away people's ability to live their own life...Grandma just doesn't get why people wouldn't want her help.
Gramps has his gun collection. Grandma would rather hit you with a spatula. Grandma hates guns...but Grandpa understands the need for them, but is just rude about it every time it comes up in conversation.
Gramps can be crass and overbearing. Grandma can be a real witch and very snide at all the wrong times and loves to push Grandpa's buttons. And she seems to love to needle him in public when she has the chance....and you can just see Grandpa seething when she puts on her superior and condescending tone.
Gramps saved Grandma from be assaulted. Not once, but twice. But during their early years, she put him through college while working two jobs so he could attend med school.
They both blame the other one for starting the fight....
I've seen the Statue, and it is green, and it's beautiful. Much lovelier in person than on TV or in movies. Remember the joke in the Ghostbusters movie, when someone wonders if she's got underwear on under that robe, and one of the Ghostbusters observes, "Well, she is French."
From my asian point of view, one reason i saw why americans hate french so much because they are both arrogant in different ways, yet French people carry arrogance properly and gracefully. This is the truth that i can see.
Many arrogant american wants to compete french in anyways aggresively, however, french people will fight back in a healthy way which i consider them very calm , quite and rational in every move and thing they do. Most of french people grew up in a right way by the parents. Every country i agree is not perfect..i have never been to these two countries.. but by reading, observing my french and american friends... you can tell the culture and the quality the country promotes.
I dont hate americans either.. they have golden hearts they want to show to people. They are also willing to help.. but sometimes.. they have cruel intentions when they help, this statement was base on my Grandmoms experienced during the world war before.
What i like about french as a whole.. they are very good steward of whatever they have... look at the country God gave them.. they did not make it worst.. but they do improvised it without destroying the essence of the culture...
That makes everyone fascinated when they go to France.. and realize that we need to value and take care of whatever we have. Even me.. looking at the pictures of france... can really tell... that in different ways.. they are smart and they have the right to be arrogant because of what they have done which makes the whole world amazed.
I have been puzzling over this for years now and can't really understand it. I myself am French ( no rotten tomatoes please ) and have lived in the UK for 18 years and 3 years before that travelling around the US. I sound quite British and always found Americans delightful and friendly but on many occasions I noticed that if they found out I was French, all of a sudden I was virtually ostracized which I find utterly bizarre and upsetting.
I also heard all the jokes about the French being dirty, and arrogant and I can't quite reconcile this with the France I know.
A lot of Parisians are rude and unhelpful that is true ( and as such are very much mocked and disliked by the rest of France) but then again so are a lot of New Yorkers or Bostonians and I have never for one assumed that meant all Americans were thus.
I find people in the rest of France kind and helpful, generous and they generally have a good sense of humour.
There are bad apples like everywhere else but in general it is a friendly place.
France is by no means perfect and yes it does have high unemployment and a lot of social issues which need addressing but I can't see how this justifies the animosity towards an entire Nation. They are a proud people that is true and can be a bit too "self- centered" but I would say this equally applies to America and most countries in general.I have also been dismayed at this blatant dislike of my compatriots as most Americans I spoke to had never been to France and if so had only visited Paris. How can you judge a country if you haven't lived there and don't speak the language ?
Despite all its problems France still has the best (free) health care in the world, accessible to all ( according to the World Health organisation, not exactly known for its pro French bias) , free education and university, good social benefits ( such as paid leave, maternity leave etc...)and still manages to be more productive per hour than a US worker ( only outdone by the Norwegians).
It might not be perfect but it is hardly the stinky pit of Satan's hell which a lot of people in the US believe.
Americans also seem to think the French hate them, IT'S NOT TRUE . Most French people actually really like Americans and love talking to them. If you speak a bit of French to them they open up and making an effort is almost always rewarded ( ask my not very good French speaking British partner of 18 years by a smile and a chat. They don't like American foreign policies but I'm afraid the hard truth is neither does most of the rest of the world. Sorry.
I have actually found myself defending Americans to the Brits who really DO have a very arrogant attitude to the US and do not like them very much at all. I have heard so many snide comments about Americans and some really snobby attitude to a country I am extremely fond of.
As for cleanliness , the Brits are far dirtier than the French any day. Believe me I have seen some true horrors in my time... I have been a member of a home exchange organisation for 18 years and British people are the worse.
I'm sure I have now opened up a can of worms but I would really like some input.
i like how you consider this and put into so many words...while it can be a quirk of americans to not be able to sit through much more than a soundbyte in 3D and virtual reality, any more.
i think it's lack of understanding and exposure to some extent, superficial understanding and exposure (via TV, e.g.) to another, a few actual quirks in our respective ways that we sometimes don't care to admit or see, among other things. some americans get the same thing in other parts of america, and my sense of it at this point is that it has a bit to do with lack of understanding and insecurity, and some of the other things i mentioned to some extent or other. as you get into the heart of america, people can tend to be a bit proud in a sort of unexposed - to the borders and what's outside of them - or at times defensive-that's-going-to-be-the-assumption-of-them kind of way, for example. not that new yorkers, californians, texans, etc. don't bring a bit of it on themselves by inadvertantly reinforcing some stereotypes (which may or may not be all that accurate or well understood). yet, it can come off as nearly as snooty as what some people in the middle of america themselves "despise". my sense is also that people in other countries misunderstand and broadbrush americans, too, for some similar reasons, as well for some reasons that americans bring upon themselves via their lack of exposure (and, to some degree, lack of fundamental perceived "need" for exposure - when you're that far from the borders of the world's "superpower" and all you've known is being able to have what you want when you want it, relatively, without much more history and international flux for the ol' perspective, and so paris (!) hilton, "reality tv", las vegas, and your SUV kinda become the most stimulating and pressing interests...that can be your filter - as can many other things for the great variety of people and their experiences in america; thinking inner city ghettos, some of those little farm houses you see WAY off in the distance from the interstate in nebraska, etc).
i personally think that americans are sort of well intentioned and "open armed" (if a bit seemingly naive and ignorant as to what life can and has been like for some others around the world TO some others around the world) overall, i think that some of the things that underlie that "well intentioned" feed some self-entitlement that can be and is very off-putting to some others (while some americans have no way of really seeing how that could be) that then respond in ways that seem very off putting to some americans, one thing leads to another, and you get comments on "snooty french", or much worse as we see play out on a geopolitical stage... vicious cycles throughout history, and now america's the "new kid on the block" kinda...
i think there can be a bit of a misperception in americans "not caring", when, in part, americans just take what is given to them via the media and commerce which shapes what they want - another cycle. plus, our constitution and economy are such that ther eisn't much motive for americans to really speak up and make a fuss; our officials will be gone if we wait long enough (8 years, say), and we certainly don't want to rock the boat too hard and lose our investments (home values, etc.). so we look complacent (which, admittedly, we sort of are in some ways...until the captain's clearly stearing the boat too far off course, then you get the late 60's sorta franco-style uproar). i would agree that americans might generally get a little too caught up in "the dream" while forgetting (or missing altogether) about how the pursuit of it can pan out for the rest of the world and, ultimately, themselves. (ahem, global warming, political and economic manipulations, belligerent stiff-arms, repercussions thereof, diluted media coverage and superficial soundbytes ...) and so some perceptions of them, or perceived perceptions and so "well fer-git YOU, then, for thinking that or telling ME what to do"...sort of a human response, if not ENTIRELY an american response...
anyhow, i also like the grandma and grandpa post/analogy earlier in the thread - sort of brings it down to an individual psychology level which seems to apply at bigger scales, seems to me. and it's funny
Last edited by hello-world; 06-26-2007 at 04:01 PM..
i like how you consider this and put into so many words...while it can be a quirk of americans to not be able to sit through much more than a soundbyte in 3D and virtual reality, any more.
i think it's lack of understanding and exposure to some extent, superficial understanding and exposure (via TV, e.g.) to another, a few actual quirks in our respective ways that we sometimes don't care to admit or see, among other things. some americans get the same thing in other parts of america, and my sense of it at this point is that it has a bit to do with lack of understanding and insecurity, and some of the other things i mentioned to some extent or other. as you get into the heart of america, people can tend to be a bit proud in a sort of unexposed - to the borders and what's outside of them - or at times defensive-that's-going-to-be-the-assumption-of-them kind of way, for example. not that new yorkers, californians, texans, etc. don't bring a bit of it on themselves by inadvertantly reinforcing some stereotypes (which may or may not be all that accurate or well understood). yet, it can come off as nearly as snooty as what some people in the middle of america themselves "despise". my sense is also that people in other countries misunderstand and broadbrush americans, too, for some similar reasons, as well for some reasons that americans bring upon themselves via their lack of exposure (and, to some degree, lack of fundamental perceived "need" for exposure - when you're that far from the borders of the world's "superpower" and all you've known is being able to have what you want when you want it, relatively, without much more history and international flux for the ol' perspective, and so paris (!) hilton, "reality tv", las vegas, and your SUV kinda become the most stimulating and pressing interests...that can be your filter - as can many other things for the great variety of people and their experiences in america; thinking inner city ghettos, some of those little farm houses you see WAY off in the distance from the interstate in nebraska, etc).
i personally think that americans are sort of well intentioned and "open armed" (if a bit seemingly naive and ignorant as to what life can and has been like for some others around the world TO some others around the world) overall, i think that some of the things that underlie that "well intentioned" feed some self-entitlement that can be and is very off-putting to some others (while some americans have no way of really seeing how that could be) that then respond in ways that seem very off putting to some americans, one thing leads to another, and you get comments on "snooty french", or much worse as we see play out on a geopolitical stage... vicious cycles throughout history, and now america's the "new kid on the block" kinda...
i think there can be a bit of a misperception in americans "not caring", when, in part, americans just take what is given to them via the media and commerce which shapes what they want - another cycle. plus, our constitution and economy are such that ther eisn't much motive for americans to really speak up and make a fuss; our officials will be gone if we wait long enough (8 years, say), and we certainly don't want to rock the boat too hard and lose our investments (home values, etc.). so we look complacent (which, admittedly, we sort of are in some ways...until the captain's clearly stearing the boat too far off course, then you get the late 60's sorta franco-style uproar). i would agree that americans might generally get a little too caught up in "the dream" while forgetting (or missing altogether) about how the pursuit of it can pan out for the rest of the world and, ultimately, themselves. (ahem, global warming, political and economic manipulations, belligerent stiff-arms, repercussions thereof, diluted media coverage and superficial soundbytes ...) and so some perceptions of them, or perceived perceptions and so "well fer-git YOU, then, for thinking that or telling ME what to do"...sort of a human response, if not ENTIRELY an american response...
anyhow, i also like the grandma and grandpa post/analogy earlier in the thread - sort of brings it down to an individual psychology level which seems to apply at bigger scales, seems to me. and it's funny
I think you are absolutely right and I do Love America for all its faults but also all its wonderful aspects. I find American people ( for the most part, some posters are fairly objectionable !) friendly and open which is why I visit every year. My grand father was American and I studied in the US so I am really quite a fan . I just wish the lack of communications between culture and Nations could be resolved because a lot of the time we would all find out how similar we are !
And yes I think the media and modern culture has not helped the matter either !
Politics can also be a bit of a stumbling block as I am a reluctant capitalist and lean to the left ...
I think you are absolutely right and I do Love America for all its faults but also all its wonderful aspects. I find American people ( for the most part, some posters are fairly objectionable !) friendly and open which is why I visit every year. My grand father was American and I studied in the US so I am really quite a fan . I just wish the lack of communications between culture and Nations could be resolved because a lot of the time we would all find out how similar we are !
And yes I think the media and modern culture has not helped the matter either !
Politics can also be a bit of a stumbling block as I am a reluctant capitalist and lean to the left ...
yah. the world's getting smaller. understanding of some things, some differences, some similarities, some things outside of our immediate selves, might go a long way for all of us in the near future!
Last edited by hello-world; 06-26-2007 at 07:00 PM..
Hmmm....maybe America and France having this issue is like your grandpa and your grandma fighting....and forgive if this isn't perfect but I was just thinking of this as I went along....
Gramps is tougher, but Grandma is the better cook. He thinks she's weak and can't make decisions. She thinks he could use some culture and stop eating Spam so much, and should stop getting in bar fights just to prove he's right all the time.
Gramps likes country music, Grandma likes opera.
Gramps thinks people should look after themselves and the government should stay out of people's business. Grandma thinks people need a lot of looking after and figures she'll help out even when it's not welcome since she knows what's best. Gramps thinks she takes away people's ability to live their own life...Grandma just doesn't get why people wouldn't want her help.
Gramps has his gun collection. Grandma would rather hit you with a spatula. Grandma hates guns...but Grandpa understands the need for them, but is just rude about it every time it comes up in conversation.
Gramps can be crass and overbearing. Grandma can be a real witch and very snide at all the wrong times and loves to push Grandpa's buttons. And she seems to love to needle him in public when she has the chance....and you can just see Grandpa seething when she puts on her superior and condescending tone.
Gramps saved Grandma from be assaulted. Not once, but twice. But during their early years, she put him through college while working two jobs so he could attend med school.
They both blame the other one for starting the fight....
and gramps doesn't want to feel "Dumb" and, heck, much of what he says and does IS right in his little world - all he's really known. tough to know much else when your inclination has come to denying any need for asking for directions and you're so big and tough most people have been afraid of arguing until lately (you old curmudgeon! you're gonna get yourself and all of us killed, you keep driving like that even if you ARE just a little intoxicated ), anyhow.
grandma doesn't want to feel she's EVER really NEEDED gramps - noone wants to feel inferior, especially when they've been at this or that for a real long time, after all - but gramps and grandma would probably have had a pretty tough time without each other at this point...
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who do so many americans hate french people
) and have lived in the UK for 18 years and 3 years before that travelling around the US. I sound quite British and always found Americans delightful and friendly but on many occasions I noticed that if they found out I was French, all of a sudden I was virtually ostracized which I find utterly bizarre and upsetting.
