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This must be some kind of sick joke. All career criminals belong six feet under. Why should anyone treat convicted murderers or rapists with respect? Why should they have any kind of human rights? Did they treat their victims with respect and think about their human rights?
I do agree that long-term prison sentences do not work, or shoud i say they serve no purpose. It would be much more safer, and most importantly cheaper, to execute all career criminals as soon as possible with the cheapest possible method.
For smaller crimes, this kind of humane approach with access to work, rehabilitation, and education does work excellently though.
And how do you define "culturally" Norwegian ?
If you mean what I think you mean, then wouldn't the vast majority of US citizens be "culturally" American ?
Or, are you suggesting that it's only immigrants, and non-whites who break the law in America?
I don't understand what Norway's percentage of immigrant population has to do with crime statistics ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
There are less than 5 million people in Norway, 94% of whom are culturally Norweigan. You don't think that's relevant? Or you think it's still a good comparison? They've even done studies about its genetic homogeneity. Gimme a freakin' break.
you are comparing apples to oranges. Norway has a Gini coefficient of 28 compared to the US' 45. That is far more likely the driver in crime rather then the prison system.
50 years ago, the percentage of prisoners was not significantly higher in the US, compared with the UK, a strong punisher in Europe.
In the 80's, the war on drugs introduced the 3 strikes and your ot rule. That rule is becoming common when it comes to other crimes (not only the strictly drugs-related).
Nowadays, the US have 5 times more prisoners in jail! Is crime reduced 5 times too? Don't think so.
Maybe long-term imprisonment isn't that effective???
I prefer effective rehabilitation. Better a murderer 5 years in jail with rehabilitation and not 40 years behind bars.
Nut that is another debate. Other continent, other opinions.
you are comparing apples to oranges. Norway has a Gini coefficient of 28 compared to the US' 45. That is far more likely the driver in crime rather then the prison system.
Random... luckily I know what the gini coefficient is, but I think u might have to explain it to people on here.
This is actually key to Norway's low crime rate. The level of inequality in Norway is one of the lowest (I think maybe the lowest? I don't know) and that is many times related to the crime rate. There's obviously huge exceptions, like Mexico, which has the same GINI coefficient (the measure of inequality) as the U.S. but has a much higher incidence of crime. Some African nations are poor all the way around, so that even the wealthy are poor, making for a low gini coefficient. But generally speaking, the countries with the highest GINI (Brazil, ANgola, South Africa) have the highest crime rates while the countries with the lowest GINI (Switzerland, Denmark, Norway) have low crime rates.
Low inequality, coulped with economic prosperity make for low crime rates in Norway. Not the fact that theyre homogenous, or Norwegian, or the fact that they're soft on crime. The same happens throughout all of Europe. Crime rates are much lower in Europe than in the U.S. because inequality is much lower in Europe than in the U.S.
You can argue all day long about the virtues of U.S. economics versus European economics... and I might agree with some. I am simply pointing out the crime stats and their relation to economics.
50 years ago, the percentage of prisoners was not significantly higher in the US, compared with the UK, a strong punisher in Europe.
In the 80's, the war on drugs introduced the 3 strikes and your ot rule. That rule is becoming common when it comes to other crimes (not only the strictly drugs-related).
Nowadays, the US have 5 times more prisoners in jail! Is crime reduced 5 times too? Don't think so.
Maybe long-term imprisonment isn't that effective???
I prefer effective rehabilitation. Better a murderer 5 years in jail with rehabilitation and not 40 years behind bars.
Nut that is another debate. Other continent, other opinions.
You're right. The problem is, we have a mentality that is more or less on par with radical islam when it comes to punishment, lol. We seek an eye for an eye. We have the most severe punishments for criminals in the developed world. Other countries with similar structures: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afhanistan, Egypt, Sudan, Somalia, Congo, Zimbabwe, China, North Korea, Vietnam... doesn't the U.S. seem just a little out of place among those countries.
50 years ago, the percentage of prisoners was not significantly higher in the US, compared with the UK, a strong punisher in Europe.
In the 80's, the war on drugs introduced the 3 strikes and your ot rule. That rule is becoming common when it comes to other crimes (not only the strictly drugs-related).
Nowadays, the US have 5 times more prisoners in jail! Is crime reduced 5 times too? Don't think so.
Maybe long-term imprisonment isn't that effective???
I prefer effective rehabilitation. Better a murderer 5 years in jail with rehabilitation and not 40 years behind bars.
Nut that is another debate. Other continent, other opinions.
Your point about three strikes is valid, although there is more to the subject than just that.
A friend from Denmark used to say much the same thing about rehabilitation. We would laugh as we imagined our bespectacled and earnest Dane sitting in a circle with muscled thugs telling them to get in touch with their feelings. They would have strangled him on the spot.
"Rehabilitation" invokes images of Malcolm McDowell strapped down in a chair and being socialized with images. That's a movie of course, but what does Rehabilitation mean? Crime arises, IMHO, from an upbringing that was devoid of vital limits and boundaries, most notably personal responsibility and structured/sane family planning.
If said crimiinals were not taught it as children, how are they going to embrace it as adults after the damage has been done? The State cannot serve as Mommy or Daddy, especially 18 to 30 years later. Bureacrats can barely run their communities with proper efficiency. How are they going to engage in social engineering?
Comparing Norway to the US or UK is just silly. Yes, a 94 percent homogenous population means everything. It means Norway is a static society characterized by conformity and continuity that results in a default social stability. The US and UK are dynamic societies characterized by flux which sometimes strays into chaos. Both have been that way for hundreds of years. How could they possibly emulate Norway?
And that is not to say one is better than the other. Personally, I like the melting pot and the diversity it entails. Norway is obviously a succesful country, but its a different place. Its full of Norwegians.
So by that logic, Somalia, North Korea, many Arab countries, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos,... should also have low crime rates.
Some of those do have low crime rates, but for different reasons.
I am comparing Norway to the US and UK, not to those places, which are a completely different story. However, as the US, UK, and Norway are all more or less great places to live, you do indirectly raise a good, but different point:
If Norway is so great (and it is) why don't people admonish North Korea, many Arab countries, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and other basket cases to emulate Norway?
I ask that constantly and have NEVER received an answer.
Comparing Norway to the US or UK is just silly. Yes, a 94 percent homogenous population means everything. It means Norway is a static society characterized by conformity and continuity that results in a default social stability.
I suspect the majority of criminals in Norway are residents of its largest city, Oslo. Oslo is hardly 94% culturally Norwegian. More like 75% AND PLUMMETING.
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