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Old 12-31-2011, 03:33 PM
 
10 posts, read 9,118 times
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Did my first "MURPH" and I'm feeling great. Surprisingly most people in my cross-fit class don't adhere to any kind of true diet. They don't fast food and plenty of whole grains and they call that their diet, that's too loose for me. I'm getting used to the anabolic diet and have had one of the more extreme 2 month body transformations (but i also had the advantage of years of weightlifting, easier to show muscle then build it from scratch).
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,118 posts, read 2,518,445 times
Reputation: 1500
Time to join the fun.

My background information: I'm in the military, I deploy frequently, carry heavy loads, ruck, etc. I have a career requirement to stay in the best physical shape possible. When **** hits the fan, I need to be ready both physically and mentally. Adrenaline helps more than any workout ever will.

[since people are obsessed with stats]: I am 25, 5'6 142 @ 5.5% BF. I stay between 5% and 6.5% body fat. When I was deployed, I got down to 4.9%. Some stats on lifts: Bench - 265 max, Squat - 405x2 (parallel), 345 A2G, Deadlift - 385.

Diet: Mainly chicken, flank steak (for bulgogi), vegetables, most carbohydrates I eat are during breakfast - everything else is limited throughout the day in the form of rice and vegetables. I don't eat bread, pasta, junk food, soda. Edit: My diet is my lifestyle - I don't change what I eat completely, just to gain or lose weight. I just increase or decrease calories, increase or decrease carbs. I don't need some guy that doesn't know anything about my body, to tell me how to eat. I also drink and smoke...except that I'm not drinking while I'm doing the smolov squat cycle. I get hungover way too easily.

My overall opinion on Crossfit? Not for me. I have never been to a crossfit gym before, but a lot of folks do it on base at the gym. Most of the crossfit they do is modified, so it's not a "cindy" or "jackie" or whatever they're called. So, I won't go so far as to saying it's a "crossfit" workout, for y'all.
Anyways, with that.... I see them doing olympic [OLY] lifts with terrible form. If it's not terrible form, it's just done incorrectly. I saw a guy doing snatches today - he was just throwing it over his head and using his back to thrust it upwards, rather than getting under the bar and pushing up with his legs. I see guys do deadlifts with rounded backs (it's fair to say that, no Crossfit [CF'rs] do the same thing) and clean and press lifts, almost falling backwards. Also, for whatever reason those are the same guys that wear the five finger shoes.

Why is it not for me? I'm concerned with OLY and power lifting. My usual routine is upper/lower body split. It's not Westside or 5x5. Which, Crossfit may be an 'establishment' (maybe much like 5x5 or westside) because they have websites and try to endorse their 'way'. I have devised my own workout, based on what works for me. I have tried a lot of different styles of working out, HIIT, 5x5, westside, etc... and a simple upper/lower split with main compound lifts has proven to be the best. Right now though, I'm doing the Smolov squat cycle.

Edit: Upon further reading, it appears that hooligan is a normal guy. WCU is a cult fanatic - using terms such as 'we' and 'globo' gym. Saying 'globo' gym is a symptom of the 'we are better than you' attitude.

I lift to get strong in those lifts and in general. Does Crossfit make people stronger? Yes. Will crossfit make a OLY lifter weaker, but better at endurance and speed? Yes. Most CF'rs I come across, say they do it for 'real life functionality'. Well, last time I checked - swinging something from the ground over my head several times isn't function in real life [kettlebell swings]. Squats, Deadlifts, Rows, Mil. Press, and Bench will still give me functional strength... because, well - if those don't make me stronger (they engage my entire body as one whole working unit, rather than several different exercises over the span of a certain time limit) - then I'm not doing something right. Those lifts give me raw power, that I am still able to transfer over to 'real life' function; i.e., carrying or dragging a body, lifting stuff, walking up steps, etc. By limiting the raw power those lifts give me, by doing several at once and not focusing on the raw power, I am not as strong. And, in life you never know what you may come across. You might have to hack, jump, climb, or crawl over several minutes or hours to survive or do something. Other times, it may take one feat of strength to overcome a burden. So, functional fitness is relative. Caveat: I will say that tricep kickbacks have no place, anywhere.

A note on functional fitness:
compound lifts ARE functional. Those things increase strength all over, dramatically. Whether it's doing tire flips, sledging, carrying. With crossfit, functional fitness, as WCU says - is sledges, carries, etc. Well - what if I'm not doing those in a 'realistic situation'. Luckily, I do compound lifts to prepare me for anything because I have overall strength and not specializing in one specific 'realistic' functional exercise. In a turn of events, those 'functional exercises', aren't really that functional - because most common CF'rs won't be doing those things and instead, need overall raw power and strength. Sledging, carries, etc are almost like the bi and tri workouts of bodybuilding.

Lots of talk about 'you can beat me in a sprint, but a CF'r can be you in a metcon/sally/paul whatever'. Well, elite athletes train on supplemental exercises to make them good at what they do. CF'rs train at everything to be at a overall, excellent level of fitness. Can't really compare the two...

I do believe Crossfit, for the average person gives a good baseline start and excellent physical fitness. One can choose to maintain excellent physical fitness, or use that baseline strength and fitness and try and compete in OLY/PL events. Up to them. Not my business.

I've done a few crossfit workouts before. They're quite demanding and tough. I kept up. I was definitely smoked, but I kept up. It's just not inline with my goals or what works for me. ME, being the most important factor in my post - Crossfit does not meet my goals. Yeah, I do have some criticisms, like the poor form used by those that are doing 'standalone' and 'modified' crossfit routines - but overall I don't think it's a horrible thing.

Madflabby: You said CF to lose weight and gain muscle. Well, if that's the way you want to do it, cool. CF isn't the only way though. Some people, under the impression from CF, think it is. Look at women OLY lifters - phenomenal bodies. Even myself - I don't do crossfit - mainly heavy OLY/PL - and I easily maintain before 6% body fat on my normal diet.

Hooligan: A guy doing curls wrong is one thing, but a snatch or dead lift wrong, is much worse. Crossfitters and the average gym rat both do these lifts wrong. Most Crossfit types don't have any significant OLY/PL backgrounds - so initially, there form sucks anyways. It takes more than a week to properly learn a deadlift/squat/clean etc. And, at a low level of fitness.. it's even harder. Add on to that, multiple reps for an exercise meant to be done once, that is trouble. For what it's worth, I don't see CF'rs or gym rats try and improve their OLY/PL'ing technique. Bad technique high reps or bad technique low reps heavy weight, it's both bad.

"If you are training for powerlifting/o-lifting competitions, sure. There is more than one way to train because there is more than one goal set out there. "

There isn't more than one way to train. OLY lifters train on the lift. Period. I.e., Bulgarian method.

"185lb deadlift is quite light, in the grand scheme of things."

Maybe to you, I or the next gym guy. But, for someone just starting out - that's not light.

"We should also take the time to differentiate between poor/bad form and *dangerous* form. No?""

This is just my opinion - but poor/bad form is dangerous form for OLY lifts.

WCUGUY: "CF in no way promotes poor form."
Right. I would say it's "conducive" to poor form... i.e., the competitive nature of CF'rs wanting to finish those last 25 reps no matter what. Or coach potatoes that have never set foot in a gym before, learning for the first time, OLY lifts.

I'm sure Crossfit isn't the first or the last 'system' of working out to charge money for their gym, but I find that a bit sketchy.

I'm not for or against crossfit - I have a few critiques... but overall, it doesn't fit my goals.

Last edited by td333; 12-31-2011 at 07:27 PM..
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,118 posts, read 2,518,445 times
Reputation: 1500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
"The problem" for whom? You absolutely DO build muscle with CrossFit, unless you're already an advanced weightlifter/bodybuilder.

I'm not even sure what "get jacked" means, so I can't comment on that.

Here is a pic of the coach from my CF box in STL:




Guess that guy has so much muscle mass he can't pull his shorts up. Reminds me of the episode of family guy when the shows pokes fun at Ryan Reynolds keeping his pants below his Vcut.

Also, looks like he has a mild form of gyno.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,118 posts, read 2,518,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs View Post
the only time I will take my shirt off is if it's that hot and my shirt is getting soaked.....I cant stand a wet shirt clinging to me, so I'll take it off and put it on the back of one of our big industrial fans, and it'll be dry by the time I'm done.
That's not only unsanitary, but disgusting.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,118 posts, read 2,518,445 times
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Hooligan, what do you think of STL? I'm originally from there, always interested in what people think of the ol' hometown.

For time:
210 meter Ocean swim
1,500 meter Soft-sand run
50 Chest-to-bar pull-ups
100 Hand-release push-ups
200 Squats
1,500 meter Soft-sand run

I'm certain that powerlifters and bodybuilders would be just as bad at this workout as we would be at a 1000lb squat


You have to remember, a lot of Crossfit stuff comes from PL/OLY stuff - so to be honest, I think the PL/OLY lifter wouldn't have too much of a hard time with this workout as vice versa. Because, when strength reaches a certain point - light weight is warm up material and muscle failure doesn't come as easy. On the other hand, Crossfit people dont' train to lift heavy...
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,118 posts, read 2,518,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs View Post
I am a CFer and i also make strength and size a training priority....did your head just explode?



compound lifts is not what we refer to when we talk about functional fitness(though it's not excluded). When we talk function, we are talking things that mimic real life activities such as farmer carries, sandbag or chuck carries, sledgehammer strikes....stuff like that.
How often is your average CF'r going to carry sandbags, swing a sledge hammer, or fireman carry someone?

disclaimer: all this is my statements based on MY experiences

I increase my strength/power more, doing squats, mil press, etc - rather than to mimic those 'real life activities' (Yeah, I've done both). By having more strength and power - I can throw up 400 rounds of 7.62 ammo or a crate of 40MM.

Squats make my legs exponentially stronger than any CF workout has or will do. I'm 140-145 lbs, body weight exercises won't cut it when I need to pull, drag, or carry something heavier than I am. Those squats will give me that RAW power I need.. and has done.

I can do a circuit including 95 lb standing military press. Or, I can train to do 5x5 of 145 military press [standing, strict form, no hip thrust]. That 155, dedicated to the strength of my shoulder, over endurance overall - helps me lug and throw large loads.

So, for me - strength training [compound lifts] are more beneficial to me than crossfit type workouts. I dabbled in crossfit type stuff a few years ago - not at a gym - but the overall 'stations'... didn't work for my body or goals.

caveat: If you've ever dug out a position and filled sandbags in 130 degree weather - trust me, no amount of crossfit or strength training will help you there; it's just going to suck.

EDIT: On March Madness - first chick doing the clean has poor form - she's pulling too high. With light weight, IOT do multiple reps on a power/oly lift, the form will suffer because the weight is too low. I.e., she's pulling too high. Also - one of the other women doing the clean (squat clean), isn't even doing the squat clean.. she's doing some weird half power clean knee bend thing.

Last edited by td333; 12-31-2011 at 07:41 PM..
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,118 posts, read 2,518,445 times
Reputation: 1500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs View Post
Not training optimally?...lol. Yes, if a person wants to specialize to get bigger and stronger, CF probably isnt the best thing. However, I tailor mine to get a blend of both.
You want a blend of both after you've said that CF isn't the best thing to get bigger and stronger?
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,118 posts, read 2,518,445 times
Reputation: 1500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs View Post

I did mechanized routines for nearly a decade before starting CF about 3 years ago, and bought alot of BB magazines fairly regularly and NEVER saw a routine with carries.....just sayin.
Bodybuilding.com - Farmer's Walk Guide!
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,118 posts, read 2,518,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs View Post
dude, are you serious?

1. Powerlifters flip huge tires regularly....ever watched World's Strongest Man?

2. A clean and jerk is an Olympic/Power lift.
Powerlifters compete in Bench, Squat, DL.

Clean and jerk is an OLY lift.

Thanks.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
2,118 posts, read 2,518,445 times
Reputation: 1500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post

I would say these numbers are FAR better than "crappy or average". Wouldn't you?

Squat:500 lbs
Clean:320 lbs
Snatch:265 lbs
Deadlift:550 lbs
Those are good numbers, BUT - someone that is new to the gym (a lot of CF'rs), won't ever put up those numbers if they only do crossfit. Specialization is needed in those lifts to attain those numbers, unless the person is a freak.

Here is a good read on sport specific training and 'elite' athletes: http://www.joeskopec.com/holyhat.html

Edit: Not necessarily directed at you hooligan - but one obvious reason CF isn't for 'power' in certain lifts or overall fitness is that, people train [in circuits] multiple lifts at 50% efficiency. Rather, when training one lift - i.e., triples of DL's, 80-100% efficiency is being used, therefore generating more CNS/muscle fatique/training.

Last edited by td333; 12-31-2011 at 08:22 PM..
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