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I train for strength and size, and have nothing against CrossFit (might try it in the future)...but I have a question out of curiosity for you CrossFit advocates.
Many times I hear those talking about CrossFit being so great because it's "FUNCTIONAL!!". Fact is, nothing about CrossFit is new or revolutionary.
I agree, 100%. I don't personally know any CrossFitters that think of it as revolutionary or pioneering in any way. Rare, perhaps, but not ground-breaking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onepanda
What makes your lifts (like squats, DLs, presses, etc.) any different from those of a bodybuilder or powerlifter?
BBers and PLers are lifting probably 2-3x the weight for a (usually comparatively lower) rep scheme, while CFers are doing more reps, faster, and with less weight.
It almost seems like this whole "FUNCTIONAL!!" stuff CFers talk about is just part of that cult-like following others have mentioned.
Or maybe not...please inform me.
It's not saying *our* squats or deadlifts are more functional than *your* squats or deadlifts - that's just silly as they are the exact same movement. When they tout the functional movement aspect of CrossFit, I believe what they are saying is that we ONLY do functional movements. You won't see preacher curls (or curls of any kind), shoulder shrugs or hamstring curls in any of our workouts. Powerlifters can probably say the same thing, but bodybuilders absolutely can not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onepanda
Another thing, I've seen quite a few posts asking if some guy is "big" or muscular. I'd bet 9 out of 10 times, the people you consider "big" or muscular did not attain that through CF. From what I can tell the goal of CF is not size, so why even try arguing it? It will lean you out and add some muscle (more will obviously be visible as you get leaner).
However, it's like thinking the guy in a shakeweight advertisement got muscular from using the product.
Then again, those pictures (save maybe 1) I would not consider big. Big is not tossing on a medium shirt only to have your size disappear and look similar to the skinny 150lb guy. Big would be throwing on (at least) an XL and it still being easy to tell there's considerable muscle mass under it.
I would agree, again. If you're looking for max hypertrophy of your muscles, CrossFit is far from the ideal program for you. In the grand scheme of things CrossFitters are not "big" compared to most/all powerlifters or bodybuilders. They do, however, carry MUCH more muscle mass than the average Joe who has a membership to Bally's, 24 Hour Fitness, etc.
The bottom line is there are horses for courses. CrossFit isn't the ideal thing for everyone. It is the ideal thing for me, though, and that's all that matters TO ME.
If powerlifting is what fits for you, more power to you - same with bodybuilding.
Before you write all CrossFitters off as skinny poseurs, though, give the "Linda", aka 3 Bars of Death, workout a try and compare your time to some of the better athletes at Beyond the Whiteboard. "Linda" is:
10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 reps of:
Deadlift @ 1.5x of your body weight
Bench @ 1x your body weight
Squat cleans @ .75x your body weight.
For time
It's not saying *our* squats or deadlifts are more functional than *your* squats or deadlifts - that's just silly as they are the exact same movement. When they tout the functional movement aspect of CrossFit, I believe what they are saying is that we ONLY do functional movements. You won't see preacher curls (or curls of any kind), shoulder shrugs or hamstring curls in any of our workouts. Powerlifters can probably say the same thing, but bodybuilders absolutely can not.
True - however, the lifts you listed are really only accessory and done to supplement the big (functional) lifts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan
I would agree, again. If you're looking for max hypertrophy of your muscles, CrossFit is far from the ideal program for you. In the grand scheme of things CrossFitters are not "big" compared to most/all powerlifters or bodybuilders. They do, however, carry MUCH more muscle mass than the average Joe who has a membership to Bally's, 24 Hour Fitness, etc.
The bottom line is there are horses for courses. CrossFit isn't the ideal thing for everyone. It is the ideal thing for me, though, and that's all that matters TO ME.
True - however, the lifts you listed are really only accessory and done to supplement the big (functional) lifts...
Yep, and since we don't necessarilly train to get that last 5lbs on our deadlift or overly worry about symmetry, we don't need them. Our time/energy is better spent on some other movement or skill.
Again, it's horses for courses. The first workout of the CrossFit Games this year was this -
For time:
210 meter Ocean swim
1,500 meter Soft-sand run
50 Chest-to-bar pull-ups
100 Hand-release push-ups
200 Squats
1,500 meter Soft-sand run
I'm certain that powerlifters and bodybuilders would be just as bad at this workout as we would be at a 1000lb squat or a bodybuilding competition. It's apples and oranges, IMO.
Hooligan, tried to rep you for post #81 above. VERY well put.
Crossfit works for me as well. As a martial artists/fighter, it provides me with the perfect balance of increasing my strength without sacrificing my speed. Other forms of working out would/could hinder my overall fighting ability (wing chun, taiji, kenpo).
I train for strength and size, and have nothing against CrossFit (might try it in the future)...but I have a question out of curiosity for you CrossFit advocates.
I am a CFer and i also make strength and size a training priority....did your head just explode?
Quote:
Many times I hear those talking about CrossFit being so great because it's "FUNCTIONAL!!". Fact is, nothing about CrossFit is new or revolutionary.
What makes your lifts (like squats, DLs, presses, etc.) any different from those of a bodybuilder or powerlifter?
BBers and PLers are lifting probably 2-3x the weight for a (usually comparatively lower) rep scheme, while CFers are doing more reps, faster, and with less weight.
compound lifts is not what we refer to when we talk about functional fitness(though it's not excluded). When we talk function, we are talking things that mimic real life activities such as farmer carries, sandbag or chuck carries, sledgehammer strikes....stuff like that.
Quote:
Another thing, I've seen quite a few posts asking if some guy is "big" or muscular. I'd bet 9 out of 10 times, the people you consider "big" or muscular did not attain that through CF. From what I can tell the goal of CF is not size, so why even try arguing it? It will lean you out and add some muscle (more will obviously be visible as you get leaner).
However, it's like thinking the guy in a shakeweight advertisement got muscular from using the product.
what many people, like yourself, dont realize is that CF can be tailored to meet alot of different goals.
I am a CFer and i also make strength and size a training priority....did your head just explode?
Then you're probably not training optimally as there are better programs out there for strength and size.
Then again I guess it depends on what you consider "big" and "strong".
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs
compound lifts is not what we refer to when we talk about functional fitness(though it's not excluded). When we talk function, we are talking things that mimic real life activities such as farmer carries, sandbag or chuck carries, sledgehammer strikes....stuff like that.
Carries are also common among PLing and even in some BBing routines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs
what many people, like yourself, dont realize is that CF can be tailored to meet alot of different goals.
I never said it couldn't, however as others like Hooligan have said...there are better programs out there for other goals instead of tailoring CF.
Anyone catch the mini marathon of the womens' Crossfit games on ESPN2 last night? WOW WOW WOW!! Those are some HOT HOT HOT bodied women. That French Canadian gal is amazing. Dont know when was the last time Ive seen that much sexy a$$ on TV.
Then you're probably not training optimally as there are better programs out there for strength and size.
Then again I guess it depends on what you consider "big" and "strong".
Not training optimally?...lol. Yes, if a person wants to specialize to get bigger and stronger, CF probably isnt the best thing. However, I tailor mine to get a blend of both. I'll do the daily WOD at our gym, but then(either before or after)I'll do the CF Football strength WOD.
Quote:
Carries are also common among PLing and even in some BBing routines.
I did mechanized routines for nearly a decade before starting CF about 3 years ago, and bought alot of BB magazines fairly regularly and NEVER saw a routine with carries.....just sayin.
Quote:
I never said it couldn't, however as others like Hooligan have said...there are better programs out there for other goals instead of tailoring CF.
that's the point you're missing.....yes, if a person just wants to get bigger and or stronger and not in shape, then sure, powerlifting routines and BB routines are much better. But after starting CF and then blending in some strength building, I never looked back to mechanized routines, because they are so boring and really do nothing for you. I'm stronger now than I was, but I am in FARRRR better shape, feel better, and look better. As far as fitness and lifting, Ive been there/done that, and IMO CF takes the cake. Also, as a firefighter, CF has provided such a higher level of fitness that can be required of a firefighter than a lifting routine could ever provide me. Yes, alot of BBers do cardio, but they do not stress the body physically and mentally like a CF workout can do.
Not training optimally?...lol. Yes, if a person wants to specialize to get bigger and stronger, CF probably isnt the best thing. However, I tailor mine to get a blend of both. I'll do the daily WOD at our gym, but then(either before or after)I'll do the CF Football strength WOD.
That's what I'm saying....training methods depend on one's goals. CF vanilla, CF chocolate, CF whatever isn't always going to be the best for all goals. It might give you aspects of other training, but one just has to choose what's right for their goals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs
I did mechanized routines for nearly a decade before starting CF about 3 years ago, and bought alot of BB magazines fairly regularly and NEVER saw a routine with carries.....just sayin.
That's your experience...just because YOU didn't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs
that's the point you're missing.....yes, if a person just wants to get bigger and or stronger and not in shape, then sure, powerlifting routines and BB routines are much better. But after starting CF and then blending in some strength building, I never looked back to mechanized routines, because they are so boring and really do nothing for you. I'm stronger now than I was, but I am in FARRRR better shape, feel better, and look better. As far as fitness and lifting, Ive been there/done that, and IMO CF takes the cake. Also, as a firefighter, CF has provided such a higher level of fitness that can be required of a firefighter than a lifting routine could ever provide me. Yes, alot of BBers do cardio, but they do not stress the body physically and mentally like a CF workout can do.
Those methods apparently did nothing for YOU...and that can be the result of many factors (diet, training program, intensity, consistency, etc.). To label entire training methods as "...really do nothing" and then claim your own, CF and CF + whatever is the best...is just wrong and ignorant.
If CF works you where other programs have failed then great, keep at it. However, I'm sure that people have succeeded with other programs where you did not (for whatever reasons).
While I, as a woman, prefer a more basic workout of free weights with pyramids and circuits and I even tried Crossfit a handful of times with my ex... My ex, who I am still best friends with, competes in ultra distance tris and other extreme endurance races... Well, Crossfit slowed him down! While I think he looks 10X better, physique wise... 10X BETTER... WOWZA!!! I think that says something for Crossfit and the amazing results within a few months.
His last full IM was in Galveston was his slowest time in years (been on Crossfit since end of IM season 2010 till Aug 2011). He had handful of sprint tris in the spring , marathons and such, one IM in May, a few "hell run" races and rides over the summer... ALL slower times.. but the biggest effect was on his ultra distance endurance races.
He actually went off of Crossfit in August and started training and working out normally again. He has his next IM in Florida next weekend... Keep our fingers crossed, but his training times have improved.
But I did like the physical results, I have to say... But that Tri addiction is hard to beat!
Last edited by MeAndMillie2; 10-25-2011 at 03:24 PM..
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