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Old 07-09-2009, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,295 posts, read 57,520,651 times
Reputation: 52195

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mearth View Post
The Name-Callers choose to believe that they are of a different ilk, when really, anyone could end up there under the right circumstances. And that terrifies them.
Fecal matter can hit anyone's oscillating device.

It terrifies me, too. Despite a decade of making healthy choices, there have been a few slipups here and there. Overwhelming stress and illness are two circumstances (or "excuses," if you must) I've experienced that have kicked back into gear my tendency to overeat. A long-distance move, a new relationship and a new job all at once ... and I packed on 50 of the 150 pounds I'd lost, without hardly realizing it until it was a done deal.

So, I'm terrified, too, that any reason or trigger -- be it injury, illness, stressors (like the grief AliceT mentioned) -- will start it all up again. Since I already have the tendency to use food as comfort, entertainment, or a substitute for anything else I'm missing at the time, one little stumble can easily become a big fall.

And I know I will never completely overcome that tendency to overeat. Never. Trying to maintain a healthy weight is a lot of hard work that requires maximum concentration, 24 hours a day. Some people may not want to sustain that kind of effort, but some people simply cannot.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:24 PM
 
278 posts, read 945,322 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by lola8822 View Post
[/b]

I'd love for you to show me where I personally "Slamed" somone

I'd also love to know what "Reasons" there are to be obese and unhealthy...love to hear that.

As far as I'm concerned....you guys are the ones being cruel here as well as the ones doing all of the "slaming" so pathetic.
Usually when someone calls me PATHETIC, I feel "slammed".
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Old 07-09-2009, 02:46 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,100,212 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by lola8822 View Post
So now there's a "reason" to be unhealthy?? wow ok...didn't know that. And I know a lot about the other side..I'm a PT and i've seen and heard almost everything you can imagine.....I've also seen people with the HUGEST "reasons" to be obese make the decision to be healthy and they've done it. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you guys in my professional opinion.

It's actually very sad that you all can sit here and command pitty and understanding about weight issues that can be changed
Well then it's your "professional opinion" against mine - I was a Personal Trainer for 3 years, AND went to grad school for Clinical Psychology.

We're not talking about pity, at all. I, for one, am looking for underlying causes so that anyone who wants to lose weight will know what truly motivates them to change, or not change.

Which is more than can be said for people like you, who have absolutely no empathy.
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Old 07-09-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,100,212 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by davey123 View Post
If we know that there are many causes to obesity, why aren't some people willing to say that one of those causes is simply that many people choose to eat certain foods that lead them to be obese?
I think we all know that too much of any food, and too little exercise, are the PHYSICAL reasons why most people become obese.

But the question I am asking is, "Why?"

Why are some people motivated to be healthy, and others not? And how can we induce that motivation in someone who is trying to change, but the mindset just doesn't "click?"

When I talk about mental issues, I don't necessarily mean disease - I mean any pattern of thinking and behavior that interferes with one's life.
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Old 07-09-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: The Shires
2,257 posts, read 1,730,108 times
Reputation: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by lola8822 View Post
So now there's a "reason" to be unhealthy?? wow ok...didn't know that. And I know a lot about the other side..I'm a PT and i've seen and heard almost everything you can imagine.....I've also seen people with the HUGEST "reasons" to be obese make the decision to be healthy and they've done it. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you guys in my professional opinion.

It's actually very sad that you all can sit here and command pitty and understanding about weight issues that can be changed when there are kids out there suffering from serious illnesses....I just watched an ESPN special last night on a 10 year old who was terminally ill and I thought of this thread.....makes absolutley no sense to me and i'd be totally ashamed if I were in here acting like a victim of obesity knowing what others are going through that is uncontrollable.......very sad

This thread is so absolutley sad...i'm done here. go ahead and continue the pitty/excuses party...love to see how far that gets ya'.

Firstly, I do not suffer from obesity (fast metabolism), but that doesn't mean that I cannot sympathize with those who do. It is not a "pitty party", or whatever the heck you called it...this is an open forum where we are all entitled to present our views.

As a PT, you should really know better. Tough love may work for some people, but it is not the answer for all and in many cases, it can be potentially counter productive and damaging. I also suggest that you Google the many causes of obesity, rather than just attributing it all to laziness.

As for me personally, I'm not the most active of people, but I have never had a problem with obesity. I can basically eat and eat and eat, without gaining much weight. I am not a member of any gym, because I find gyms to be rather intimidating, but I get some exercise here and there, mostly by walking. The point is that if my metabolism were much slower, I'd probably be obese and considered "lazy" by people like you, despite the fact that I work at least 40 hours per week and go to school part time.

Also, to tar everyone with the same "lazy" brush is just wrong and somewhat childish. Everyone is different; everyone's chemistry is different and everyone's circumstances are different. You are basically bad-mouthing millions of people who you don't even know.

Ignorance is far more "sad" than anything else. If only people would take a moment to try to imagine walking in someone else's shoes, maybe our society would be better as a whole.

On a final note, it seems that you not only lack empathy for people struggling with obesity, but you also dismiss others who are capable of showing empathy. Since obesity is considered such a "flaw", then consider lack of empathy as a flaw too, i.e. a character flaw.
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Old 07-09-2009, 03:28 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,100,212 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCreass View Post
...Ignorance is far more "sad" than anything else. If only people would take a moment to try to imagine walking in someone else's shoes, maybe our society would be better as a whole.

On a final note, it seems that you not only lack empathy for people struggling with obesity, but you also dismiss others who are capable of showing empathy. Since onesity is considered such a "flaw", then consider lack of empathy as a flaw too, i.e. a character flaw.


(Too soon to rep you again)
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Old 07-09-2009, 03:34 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,100,212 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Fecal matter can hit anyone's oscillating device.

It terrifies me, too. Despite a decade of making healthy choices, there have been a few slipups here and there. Overwhelming stress and illness are two circumstances (or "excuses," if you must) I've experienced that have kicked back into gear my tendency to overeat.

So, I'm terrified, too, that any reason or trigger -- be it injury, illness, stressors (like the grief AliceT mentioned) -- will start it all up again.

...one little stumble can easily become a big fall.
Exxxactly.

And for both the obese, and the very fit, we all need to have a belief in ourselves as something other than our bodies.

When I was running marathons, I was constantly afraid of getting injured or sick. Because when I stopped running for just 2 days, I began having all kinds of feelings of worthlessness and loneliness.

I had to figure out what I was really made of in order for that fear to go away. And it took a long time.

Just as an obese person has to confront their fears of failing, or of facing themselves, or what-have-you.
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Old 07-09-2009, 03:43 PM
 
1,467 posts, read 1,885,370 times
Reputation: 22487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mearth View Post
I think we all know that too much of any food, and too little exercise, are the PHYSICAL reasons why most people become obese.

But the question I am asking is, "Why?"

Why are some people motivated to be healthy, and others not? And how can we induce that motivation in someone who is trying to change, but the mindset just doesn't "click?"

When I talk about mental issues, I don't necessarily mean disease - I mean any pattern of thinking and behavior that interferes with one's life.
Yes, I understand your point. Why are some people motivated to be healthy? Why are some people not motivated to be as healthy? I get that. I am suggesting that the answer to the second question can be a simple: "I choose to eat these types of foods because I like them -- and do not want to give them up. And, I do not exercise because I don't want to." Now if a person expresses this viewpoint and they are fine with it, then it's not a problem. It is their choice; it is their life. And, if eating these types of foods are not interfering with their life, then it's really no one elses business what they choose to do. What is important to understand is that this person has made a choice about their lifestyle. I would argue that the majority of people that are obese fall into this category. In fact, I strongly believe that this is the case. So, for the ones that do fall into this category and they want to lose weight, then they first have to own the choices that they have made thus far. In doing this, they can begin the process of making new choices. Of course, the choices that they make goes with a pattern of thinking that has to also be changed. None of this is easy. It is never easy to change a "set" pattern of behavior, especially when those behaviors are centered around food. But as Lola8822 so wisely stated, it can be done. We've seen it done countless times.

The why behind what causes some people to be obese can be an underlying mental illness, an underlying health condition, or more convincingly -- simply the choices that they make. Mearth, I know that you are looking for some psychological explanation for what motivates a person to choose not to live a healthier lifestyle. However, for most people, I do not think the answer runs that deep. I would contend that it is rooted in socialization. People get socialized to eating a certain way -- living a certain way. They like it, and it's reinforcing. In order to lose weight, they have to not only recognize what they are doing, but be willing to work hard enough to choose a different path. Oh, I have to put in this final point. The previous sentence is not implying that people are lazy. I am simply suggesting that a person's current lifestyle may be too reinforcing for them to choose a different path.

Last edited by davey123; 07-09-2009 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 07-09-2009, 03:48 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,575 posts, read 29,341,867 times
Reputation: 21434
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBeez View Post
I am beginning to believe that obesity IS as much of a mental illness/disease as it is a physical illness/disease. I compare it to alcoholism or drug addiction where people who suffer from it KNOW that its killing them, but they seem to either refuse to do anything about it, or they are simply just unable to do anything. Many (unlike alcoholics or drug addicts) simply dont even try and say "well, these are the cards I was dealt" or something similar.

All too often, when working with students/clients who are obese (and even talking to those here on CD) a common theme is that they dont want to, or simply cannot give up or change their eating habits. Tell them what they need to do and its always "Oh, can I still drink my diet cokes?", "I just love doughnuts" or "Its too hard to eat right". They just cant seem to get conscious control over their stomachs and taste buds even though they KNOW THEY ARE KILLING THEMSELVES.

Recommend an exercise program and they refuse or say "I cant do that", "Its too hard", "I dont have time", or they just opt for whatever is the easiest thing to do. Or worse yet, they opt for HCG shots and 500 calorie diets, "master cleanse" coffee colonics and fasting, gastric surgery, or any other number of DANGEROUS AND EXTREMELY UNHEALTHY methods to lose weight. They seem to ignore the medically and scientifically proven fact that YOUR BODY NEEDS PROPER NUTRITION TO RUN EFFICIENTLY. Whereas, you need to eat the right foods in the proper amounts to both maintain proper functioning of the bodys internal organs, and proper weight (loss). But instead, they opt for drinking lemon water, eating one meal per day and hope to lose weight.

I think the cause of the disconnect in knowing what needs to be done, but not doing it, or even trying to do it, is some form of mental disconnect/illness that prevents them from doing the right thing. Even though they may say "I try", "I want to do the right thing" or any other excuse, the bottom line is that they dont or worse yet, say "I just gave up".
First of all the main difference between over eating and using drugs or alcohol is the fact that food is necessary for life. You cannot "cold turkey" food forever. You do not have the luxury of an "all or nothing" relationship.

Many people have some kind of distain for obese people. When I was a size 3, I thought that there was something "wrong" with people who were not obsessed with their weight or their appearance. For me, at that time, it was all about what I looked like.

People who have never had a weight issue are very unsympathetic towards those who do. I am much heavier now due to my metabolism slowing with age. I eat the same foods and am just as active as I was when I weighed 110 pounds, but my age has caught up with me. In order for me to lose weight I would completely have to change my ENTIRE diet. Can you even begin to imagine how difficult that would be? Probably not.

It is a proven fact that while MANY diseases are weight-related, there is no proof that obese people are unhealthy just because they are over-weight. Yes, weight can be a "CONTRIBUTING FACTOR", just like swimming is a contributing factor to drowning, but not everyone who swims drowns (thank goodness). Not every obese person is diabetic, or has high blood pressure, or high cholesteral, or any other malady for that matter.

I can say personally that being 40 pounds overweight I am much healthier than many of my younger and SLIMMER co-workers. And no, I do not eat well at all. I keep waiting for it to catch up with me, but so far....knock wood...

Speaking of diet. I have personally known many people who do not "eat well" and have lived long, productive, healthy lives. My gosh, I have lived in Louisiana, and I swear everybody there survives on meat, rice and crawfish (and alcohol), and most of the older people I knew there was as healthy as a horse.

As for being fat. It's not so bad at all. In fact, there are some definite advantages in my opinion.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 07-09-2009, 04:34 PM
 
8,468 posts, read 13,262,280 times
Reputation: 7511
As someone who has struggled with his weight, I have great sympathy for people who struggle with theirs cause I know how easy it is to gain it and how hard it is to lose it. Mearth made an excellent point earlier about distinguishing between fault and responsibility. In my case, I not only accepted responsibility for doing the work to lose the weight, I also accepted fault for gaining it in the first place. My weight gain was brought on, in part, by depression. I used food to make myself feel better. Luckily, I never became obese or severely overweight. But I also know, from my own experience, just how easy it is to make excuses. I blamed my social circle, the low cost of junk food, and even the culture as a whole. It was only after I stopped doing that and looked to myself as the cause of my weight gain that I was able to reverse it.

Someone earlier said that many people make poor food choices because they don't know any better. The problem I have with that is that we live in a world where lack of information is no longer an issue. If you're interested in learning about any subject, it's not hard to do so thanks to the internet. Growing up, I knew nothing of nutrition because I slept through health classes and my parents were too focused on getting me to do my homework. Plus, how many kids listen to their parents when they start preaching about eating your vegetables? But when I gained weight, I took it upon myself to learn all about nutrition and exercise. So if you're ignorant about a given subject, ask yourself why and whether you've ever taken the time to educate yourself?

As for blaming the culture at large, that's the easy way out. Yes, we're surrounded by tons of fast food options and people who don't value their health. But the idea that we're a product of our culture shouldn't be used as an excuse. I'm a product of my parents. If my parents didn't prioritize health, should I as an adult blame them? I don't think so. I have free will and should be able to accept blame for my own choices.

Personally, I've never bought into the idea of laziness. People do what they're motivated to do and avoid doing something not because they're lazy, but because they don't have a strong enough desire. I'm sure many of us would love to make a lot of money. But a lot of us aren't willing to work the long hours, suffer through endless schooling, or whatever else it takes to land those high-paying jobs. Does that make us lazy? No. It just means we don't think it's worth the effort. Same with losing weight. I know plenty of people who talk of losing weight. But they don't want to exercise or change their eating habits. I don't view them as lazy. I just view them as deciding that losing weight isn't important enough to them to work that hard. But there are other things they're more than willing to bust their butts for.

There's a lot of new research in the area of mental illnesses that show almost all of them can be traced back to diet. Of course, the drug companies don't want you to believe this because then they won't be able to push their pills on you. But if obesity is a mental illness and if mental illness is a product of lifestyle choices, then we're back to the same root cause. BTW, my depression wasn't cured by drugs. It was cured by eating right and exercise, which also helped me lose weight. Pretty nice when two problems have the same solution.
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