U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Exercise and Fitness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-08-2009, 11:08 AM
 
8,444 posts, read 13,055,960 times
Reputation: 7463

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
I also have a thing about "gym rats" (since we are admitting our biases here). Yeah, so I am going to step on a lot of toes now. I guess I just don't see the point of pumping oneself up, of the sweat and effort and time spent, just to stand in front of a mirror and preen and feel superior. WTF?

There is a whole, big wide world out there. Get out in it! Consider transferring some of that strength and fitness into, oh, cycling, running, hiking, surfing, paddling, climbing etc etc etc. Geeze!
Speaking as someone who might qualify a gym rat, I just want to say that not everyone who works out does it just to look good. I do it because it keeps me healthy, makes me feel good and enables me to perform day-to-day activities more easily. The fact that it improves my appearance is a bonus, but not the end goal. I've also never used my appearance as a way to feel superior to anyone.

Yes, there is a whole, big wide world out there. I enjoy biking and hiking and if my knees were still good, I'd be out running too. But I consider those activities "extras" to a solid workout regimen. For males especially, muscle loss is a big concern after the age of 25 and weight training has been shown to be the best way to preserve muscle. I suppose I could skip the gym and just bike, play tennis, swim, etc. But that wouldn't help me achieve all my personal fitness goals, just some. It would be analogous to wanting to eat healthy, but only eating fruits and vegetables, but no fish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mearth View Post
What about people like me? I have what most people think of as an obesity-related illness: Asthma.

I was first diagnosed AFTER I ran my FIRST MARATHON. I was practically underweight, in both BMI and body fat percentage.
The people I'm referring to are the ones who eat fast food all day and never exercise, then develop heart disease or Type II diabetes because of their poor lifestyle choices. These people put a huge burden on the health care system. In your case, you had asthma when you were underweight so clearly it's not a product of poor choices. But too many people abuse their bodies and assume insurance will be there to pick up the tab when their bad habits catch up with them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-08-2009, 06:53 PM
 
278 posts, read 937,830 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by lola8822 View Post
I still don't get it. All I'm hearing are excuses on top of excuses on top of "fat bashing" accusations....i'm totally floored. I have absolutely NEVER EVER put anyone down for being overweight....i've never put anyone down for anything actually. I hate excuses...hate them...I hate hearing them and most of all I can't stand seeing people accepting them and convincing themselves that they are factual. It's really not as tough as everyone makes it seem....once you make up your mind that you have had enough....you WILL find a way to change whatever it is that has made you so fed up...whether it be weight,smoking,drinking ect... gosh...bottom line guys. That's it.

lola,
I am just not certain that your assertions are completely true. If they were, there wouldn't be a Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, & Nutri-System in every strip mall in this country. They would have "cured" all the fat people by now, don't you think?
If it only took a person "making up their mind", then I don't think we'd have the obesity epidemic we see today.
In so many cases (certainly not all), I think overeating is a form of self-medication. Is this sad? YES! And from reading this thread, I can see that there are so many people out there who would rather have a bunch of thin valium-addicted depressives as opposed to a bunch of fat ones. Either way, there will be an effect on the health care system.
Furthermore, I just don't know if it's possible for someone to presume that they can get into the mindset of another human being. For example, you say:
I hate excuses...hate them...I hate hearing them and most of all I can't stand seeing people accepting them and convincing themselves that they are factual.
I rarely drink and never smoke. It would be easy for me to say that someone who is addicted to either should stop making excuses and JUST QUIT...because for ME, it would be easy. I just don't feel qualified to presume that because something is easy for me, that it should be easy for them. Do you think all the men & women in AA just go to all those meetings for kicks, and that one day, when they've stopped making excuses and finally had enough, every single one of them will forget they ever had an addiction problem? That's just not how it works, lola. It's never that simple.
So, forgive me if you think I am just making more excuses for people. I have yet to meet another human being who doesn't make excuses for at least some of their own behaviors; in fact, I find that people who say those kinds of things are usually the most blind to whatever excuses they make in their own lives. It may not be related to weight, or health, or addictions...more often, it's about their relationships with others.
I'm not implying that about you, it's just been my observation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2009, 06:54 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,067,974 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
The people I'm referring to are the ones who eat fast food all day and never exercise, then develop heart disease or Type II diabetes because of their poor lifestyle choices. These people put a huge burden on the health care system. In your case, you had asthma when you were underweight so clearly it's not a product of poor choices. But too many people abuse their bodies and assume insurance will be there to pick up the tab when their bad habits catch up with them.
I know you are. My point was just that people CAN end up with similar illnesses, obese or not. Diabetes, asthma, COPD, heart disease, cancer, etc.

AND, if you look at it this way: that obesity is the result of poor choices which are the result of a mental illness, then we have no more right to punish the obese person for having the mental illness than we have to punish the asthmatic marathoner. In neither case is it their fault.

PLEASE DO NOT MISS THIS POINT: There is a difference between "fault" and "responsibility." I did not cause the asthma (it's not my "fault"), but I AM responsible for managing it. The depressed person did not CAUSE the negative thought patterns that led to obesity, but they ARE responsible for learning how to get their minds back into balance - and their bodies will follow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2009, 06:58 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,067,974 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
For males especially, muscle loss is a big concern after the age of 25 and weight training has been shown to be the best way to preserve muscle.
Women have just as much of a problem with preserving muscle, on top of which, weight training and impact activities are needed to prevent osteoporosis, as well.

I still say that for every fitness goal you have, there is a FUN alternative to being in the gym.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2009, 07:38 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,074,084 times
Reputation: 7252
Quote:
Originally Posted by lola8822 View Post
I still don't get it. All I'm hearing are excuses on top of excuses on top of "fat bashing" accusations....i'm totally floored. I have absolutely NEVER EVER put anyone down for being overweight....i've never put anyone down for anything actually. I hate excuses...hate them...I hate hearing them and most of all I can't stand seeing people accepting them and convincing themselves that they are factual. It's really not as tough as everyone makes it seem....once you make up your mind that you have had enough....you WILL find a way to change whatever it is that has made you so fed up...whether it be weight,smoking,drinking ect... gosh...bottom line guys. That's it.
lola, I get that you don't get it but I think perhaps the problem with understanding is that anything you deem as an excuse isn't necesarily an excuse but a reason. Different thing entirely.

Fat and obese people who offer reasons as to why getting to and maintaining a healthy weight is difficult for them seem to be met with anger from you that they're making excuses when in fact their reasons could be very sound and quite legitimate. Unfortunately that makes things complicated if you're looking for a simple solution. I can't see the point to "wishing" the best for someone and negating them as a motivator.

The fact is that losing weight, getting to a healthy weight range and maintaining a healthy weight is extremely difficult for some people and I'm betting that if they're struggling along that path they're not going to want to spend too much time taking on board your point of view on it simply because you don't understand it AND it appears (and I could be wrong) that you view them as incomplete, less in some way and lacking in moral fibre. In other words you seem to want to blame them. IF you truly accepted the person for who they are, warts and all so to speak, you wouldn't be looking for an opportunity to blame them for not being able to accomplish something that seemingly is relatively easy for you. You'd be looking at a way to understand how it is they come to be where they are AND supporting them in finding solutions to change IF that's what they're wanting to do AND accepting them regardless IF they choose not to or are unable to.

I'll also add (not directed at you but at this thread in general) that seemingly there's a lot of people making assumptions about others.
You can't know jack about a person from looking at them OR about how they live their life or what their health is like. I realize that will be difficult for those who are visably physically fit to comprehend, who seemingly equate thin with health and fat with bad health or bad behaviour, but I find this to be the case. I've known many people in my life who have been big that actually take better care of their health than many of the thin people I know and are in fact in better health. I also know many people with a primary medical condition which pre-disposes them to gaining weight more readily and those for whom exercise is extremely difficult.

The other issue that seems to have been lost here is that fat and obesity can be a symptom of underlying health and psychological and emotional problems.

AND then there's the fact that you cannot tell from looking at a person if they lost weight this week, walked further than they did last week and generally improved their health and fitness simply by looking at them.

ALL very important points to remember when viewing someone AND ultimately one has to ask, WHY does it even interest those of you who profess to be fit and healthy? I though that fitness and good health was supposed bring great happiness to your life. I really don't get that from a lot of the posts I'm seeing here because if you're truly happy with you why the need to slam others?

Last edited by moonshadow; 07-08-2009 at 07:48 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2009, 07:42 PM
 
Location: The Shires
2,257 posts, read 1,690,485 times
Reputation: 1050
Man, I got suspended from CD last time I got into a similar debate. Obviously, I will keep it civil this time and will not get involved in any "heated" debates on this subject....

I will say this; many people who suffer from obesity do have underlying mental illnesses, such as depression. It is often a vicious circle, i.e. the obesity causes depression and the depression causes the individual to lose more self-esteem and to care about themselves less, because their self-worth goes right out the window.

Blaming the individual is the easy option for many, but it does not help. Chastising these people is not the answer -- better understanding and tolerance is. As a nation, we should help educate people to make the right choices when it comes to eating right, exercising and taking care of our bodies. Many people make poor decisions because basically, they don't know any better, so they do not deserve to be judged.

In the US, our culture over the last few decades has basically created the obesity epidemic we have today. For decades, fast food and big portions were cool, walking / public transportation was for losers and the vast majority of our towns and cities are geared towards the car. In other words, you can only blame the individual to a certain extent, before you have to look at our society as a whole.

Oh, also the US uses far more HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) in foods and beverages than any other nation on earth. HFCS has been proven to cause obesity. So the "choices" that many people have are limited, especially those who are on tight budgets and are barely making ends meet. Those same people certainly don't have the money to shell out on gym memberships and many of them live in highly unwalkable places.

...just my 2 cents' worth...and I promise, I won't get involved in any "wars" on here :-/

Last edited by EnjoyTheSilence; 07-08-2009 at 09:11 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2009, 07:45 PM
 
Location: The Shires
2,257 posts, read 1,690,485 times
Reputation: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
lola, I get that you don't get it but I think perhaps the problem with understanding is that anything you deem as an excuse isn't necesarily an excuse but a reason. Different thing entirely.

Fat and obese people who offer reasons as to why getting to and maintaining a healthy weight is difficult for them seem to be met with anger from you that they're making excuses when in fact their reasons could be very sound and quite legitimate. Unfortunately that makes things complicated if you're looking for a simple solution. I can't see the point to "wishing" the best for someone and negating them as a motivator.

The fact is that losing weight, getting to a healthy weight range and maintaining a healthy weight is extremely difficult for some people and I'm betting that if they're struggling along that path they're not going to want to spend too much time taking on board your point of view on it simply because you don't understand it AND it appears (and I could be wrong) that you view them as incomplete, less in some way and lacking in moral fibre. In other words you seem to want to blame them. IF you truly accepted the person for who they are, warts and all so to speak, you wouldn't be looking for an opportunity to blame them for not being able to accomplish something that seemingly is relatively easy for you. You'd be looking at a way to understand how it is they come to be where they are AND supporting them in finding solutions to change IF that's what they're wanting to do AND accepting them regardless IF they choose not to or are unable to.

I'll also add (not directed at you but at this thread in general) that seemingly there's a lot of people making assumptions about others.
You can't know jack about a person from looking at them OR about how they live their life or what their health is like. I realize that will be difficult for those who are visably physically fit to comprehend, who seemingly equate thin with health and fat with bad health or bad behaviour, but I find this to be the case. I've known many people in my life who have been big that actually take better care of their health than many of the thin people I know and are in fact in better health. I also know many people with a primary medical condition which pre-disposes them to gaining weight more readily and those for whom exercise is extremely difficult.

The other issue that seems to have been lost here is that fat and obesity can be a symptom of underlying health and psychological and emotional problems.

AND then there's the fact that you cannot tell from looking at a person if they lost weight this week, walked further than they did last week and generally improved their health and fitness simply by looking at them.

ALL very important points to remember when viewing someone AND ultimately one has to ask, WHY doesn't it even interest those of you who profess to be fit and healthy? I though that fitness and good health was supposed bring great happiness to your life. I really don't get that from a lot of the posts I'm seeing here because if you're truly happy with you why the need to slam others?
Great, insightful post.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2009, 07:54 PM
 
Location: The Shires
2,257 posts, read 1,690,485 times
Reputation: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
lola, I get that you don't get it but I think perhaps the problem with understanding is that anything you deem as an excuse isn't necesarily an excuse but a reason. Different thing entirely.

Fat and obese people who offer reasons as to why getting to and maintaining a healthy weight is difficult for them seem to be met with anger from you that they're making excuses when in fact their reasons could be very sound and quite legitimate. Unfortunately that makes things complicated if you're looking for a simple solution. I can't see the point to "wishing" the best for someone and negating them as a motivator.

The fact is that losing weight, getting to a healthy weight range and maintaining a healthy weight is extremely difficult for some people and I'm betting that if they're struggling along that path they're not going to want to spend too much time taking on board your point of view on it simply because you don't understand it AND it appears (and I could be wrong) that you view them as incomplete, less in some way and lacking in moral fibre. In other words you seem to want to blame them. IF you truly accepted the person for who they are, warts and all so to speak, you wouldn't be looking for an opportunity to blame them for not being able to accomplish something that seemingly is relatively easy for you. You'd be looking at a way to understand how it is they come to be where they are AND supporting them in finding solutions to change IF that's what they're wanting to do AND accepting them regardless IF they choose not to or are unable to.

I'll also add (not directed at you but at this thread in general) that seemingly there's a lot of people making assumptions about others.
You can't know jack about a person from looking at them OR about how they live their life or what their health is like. I realize that will be difficult for those who are visably physically fit to comprehend, who seemingly equate thin with health and fat with bad health or bad behaviour, but I find this to be the case. I've known many people in my life who have been big that actually take better care of their health than many of the thin people I know and are in fact in better health. I also know many people with a primary medical condition which pre-disposes them to gaining weight more readily and those for whom exercise is extremely difficult.

The other issue that seems to have been lost here is that fat and obesity can be a symptom of underlying health and psychological and emotional problems.

AND then there's the fact that you cannot tell from looking at a person if they lost weight this week, walked further than they did last week and generally improved their health and fitness simply by looking at them.

ALL very important points to remember when viewing someone AND ultimately one has to ask, WHY does it even interest those of you who profess to be fit and healthy? I though that fitness and good health was supposed bring great happiness to your life. I really don't get that from a lot of the posts I'm seeing here because if you're truly happy with you why the need to slam others?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lola8822 View Post
I still don't get it. All I'm hearing are excuses on top of excuses on top of "fat bashing" accusations....i'm totally floored. I have absolutely NEVER EVER put anyone down for being overweight....i've never put anyone down for anything actually. I hate excuses...hate them...I hate hearing them and most of all I can't stand seeing people accepting them and convincing themselves that they are factual. It's really not as tough as everyone makes it seem....once you make up your mind that you have had enough....you WILL find a way to change whatever it is that has made you so fed up...whether it be weight,smoking,drinking ect... gosh...bottom line guys. That's it.
As someone else quite rightly pointed out, learn to differentiate between an excuse and a reason.

'nuff said.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2009, 07:54 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,074,084 times
Reputation: 7252
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCreass View Post
Great, insightful post.....
Thanks!

I was just about to say the same to you!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2009, 07:55 PM
 
Location: The Shires
2,257 posts, read 1,690,485 times
Reputation: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Thanks!

I was just about to say the same to you!
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to moonshadow again"

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Exercise and Fitness
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top