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Old 07-08-2009, 08:36 PM
'M'
 
Location: Glendale Country Club
1,770 posts, read 2,503,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBeez View Post
Sounds like someone's feathers have been ruffled.
... Why, when given something as powerful as knowledge do people choose to ignore it? That is where the mental "illness"/disconnect come in.
Yes, I think you may have hit the nail right on the head: it's a mental illness called 'addiction'. In this case, it is addiction to refined carbohydrates like sugar and refined flour. Some also have allergies to grains, even whole grains. Eating these foods causes a mental and physical obsession that is overwhelmingly powerful. The only way out is to refrain from eating these foods. This will help to break the mental and physical obsession with these types of foods.

And...for those who are vulnerable to the cravings caused by these foods, depression is often the result of eating them. It messes with people's biochemistry. The processed food industry has hit a goldmine because the so-called foods that they sell hook many people whose bodies aren't able to tolerate highly-processed foods.

Last edited by 'M'; 07-08-2009 at 09:09 PM..
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:17 PM
 
1,467 posts, read 1,881,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mearth View Post
AND, if you look at it this way: that obesity is the result of poor choices which are the result of a mental illness, then we have no more right to punish the obese person for having the mental illness than we have to punish the asthmatic marathoner. In neither case is it their fault.
Mearth, I am not attacking you, but I am challenging the assumption that you keep making. It is erroneous to state that obesity is caused by an underlying mental illness. In fact, it is more accurate to state that, for some people, obesity is caused by an underlying mental illness (whether that mental illness be depression, anxiety, or something else). For some other people, there may be a health condition that caused obesity. Yet, there is another reason that we cannot forget. I would contend that this is the reason the majority of people are obese. That reason is that many people choose to eat poorly and do not exercise. (The OP suggested that this choice is the mental illness; however, I do not believe this is true either.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mearth View Post
PLEASE DO NOT MISS THIS POINT: There is a difference between "fault" and "responsibility." I did not cause the asthma (it's not my "fault"), but I AM responsible for managing it. The depressed person did not CAUSE the negative thought patterns that led to obesity, but they ARE responsible for learning how to get their minds back into balance - and their bodies will follow.
There are many causes of obesity. Foremost among those is that people choose to eat poorly and/ or choose not to exercise. In these cases, neither mental illness nor an underlying health condition are the cause. (Let's face it folks, some fatty foods are just damn delicious. And, it's not that people cannot stop eating them, they simply do not want to stop eating them.) No matter how passionate we get about this topic, we have got to acknowledge that many people do CAUSE their obesity. And, the only way that they will be able to take RESPONSIBILITY for managing it will be to OWN the role that they played in their condition.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:18 PM
 
278 posts, read 943,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBeez View Post
Sounds like someone's feathers have been ruffled.

Why, when given something as powerful as knowledge do people choose to ignore it? That is where the mental "illness"/disconnect come in.



Humans do a lot of stupid things when given knowledge, DaBeez.
We all know that driving automobiles everyday emits pollution that is hazardous to the planet...but I bet YOU sat in your car today and drove wherever you needed to go. In your own words, "Why the "F" did you do that, when given this powerful knowledge?" Using that same logic, we know that driving is very dangerous and a large contributor to the death toll in America...why do you drive, when you have this knowledge? What if you don't die, and you get injured and have to go on long-term disability, and now the rest of us have to suffer the rising costs of health care...all because you just have to drive your car?
I'm being facetious, of course. I just want to make the point that ALL of us do things that are hazardous, have costly results, and affect society. It's part of living in the free world.
On a more positive note, I do think that the recent emphasis on obesity will cause a number of overweight Amercans to consider healthier alternatives. Some of them will, and some of them simply won't.
Stop being so hateful to people for being a certain way that you don't approve of...that kind of attitude has been a plague on humanity in more ways than one.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:33 PM
 
Location: The Shires
2,257 posts, read 1,722,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey123 View Post
There are many causes of obesity. Foremost among those is that people choose to eat poorly and/ or choose not to exercise. In these cases, neither mental illness nor an underlying health condition are the cause. (Let's face it folks, some fatty foods are just damn delicious. And, it's not that people cannot stop eating them, they simply do not want to stop eating them.) No matter how passionate we get about this topic, we have got to acknowledge that many people do CAUSE their obesity. And, the only way that they will be able to take RESPONSIBILITY for managing it will be to OWN the role that they played in their condition.
We all love to talk about "choice" here in America, without taking into account that the choices of many people are limited, or that some people simply do not know any better. Fast/processed foods are shoved down our throats daily (not literally). Fast/processed food is cheap and easy, while it's often harder to eat right, especially here in the United States. Our towns and cities are geared towards the motor car and people on lower incomes tend to live in places where it's simply not safe to be outdoors. Indoor gyms are not the answer for everyone, nor are they affordable for people struggling to make ends meet.

It's so easy to judge others and accuse them of being just "lazy". I try not to do that -- everyone is different; some people are strong and go through life making all the right decisions, while others are weak, or misinformed and simply do not know any better.

I find it baffling that people seek to blame individuals, knowing full-well that the United States has been the pioneer of junk/fast food for decades, along with being the pioneer of the non-walking, non-public transportation using, car-centric culture. Instead of accepting the blame, as a society, we choose to blame the individuals instead, which stinks, IMO...because people are basically products of the societies in which they are born into.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:03 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,094,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey123 View Post
Mearth, I am not attacking you, but I am challenging the assumption that you keep making.
I understand and appreciate that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davey123 View Post
It is erroneous to state that obesity is caused by an underlying mental illness. In fact, it is more accurate to state that, for some people, obesity is caused by an underlying mental illness (whether that mental illness be depression, anxiety, or something else). For some other people, there may be a health condition that caused obesity. Yet, there is another reason that we cannot forget. I would contend that this is the reason the majority of people are obese. That reason is that many people choose to eat poorly and do not exercise. (The OP suggested that this choice is the mental illness; however, I do not believe this is true either.)
Okay. I would NOT say that every obese person has a recognized mental illness (I probably did phrase it that way before, though- my bad).

My thought process is this: What would cause a person to abuse themselves in such a way? Certainly it is not a healthy state of mind. There IS something wrong with their thinking, even if it is not full-on depression etc.

Everyone knows nutrition and exercise will keep you healthy. So why do so many people ignore it? Certainly, with the rate of obesity in this country, that many people are not simply lazy or stupid.

I think part of the reason why people want to categorize them as such, is to protect themselves. If there is something universally human about why the obese have gone down that road, then that makes it equally likely that anyone else can. The Name-Callers choose to believe that they are of a different ilk, when really, anyone could end up there under the right circumstances. And that terrifies them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by davey123 View Post
There are many causes of obesity. Foremost among those is that people choose to eat poorly and/ or choose not to exercise. In these cases, neither mental illness nor an underlying health condition are the cause. (Let's face it folks, some fatty foods are just damn delicious. And, it's not that people cannot stop eating them, they simply do not want to stop eating them.) No matter how passionate we get about this topic, we have got to acknowledge that many people do CAUSE their obesity. And, the only way that they will be able to take RESPONSIBILITY for managing it will be to OWN the role that they played in their condition.
But why can they not eat those deliciously sinful foods in moderation? I believe there is a certain level of chemical imbalance in the brain causing the craving for more and more - just as a true alcoholic cannot stop once he picks up the first drink, so with the girl at the refrigerator just looking for something sweet.

I agree that acknowledging ALL of the problems (including the individual's role such as, "Well I have a chemical imbalance, so I may as well give up") is the beginning of taking responsibility. Unfortunately, with any addiction, the thought process that perpetuates the addiction, also eradicates the hope for beating it. Obesity has to be tackled with a support system, which many people in this technological age are severely lacking.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:39 PM
 
Location: James Island, SC
1,628 posts, read 3,094,606 times
Reputation: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCreass View Post
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to moonshadow again"

Got it covered

Unfortunately, "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BCreass again" :/
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:00 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,184,827 times
Reputation: 7257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mearth View Post
Got it covered

Unfortunately, "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BCreass again" :/
That's ^ the message I got before!

Thanks Mearth!


Oh and the more I read this thread the more ghrelin keeps popping into my mind. I'm sure some will view it as another "excuse" BUT more and more it seems that the physiology of obesity appears to be different to the physiology of "normal" weight people. SO in my mind it's not just about will power or lack there of, or stupidity OR mental illness or laziness, OR any other blame mechanism that people want to bandy about, people are actually DIFFERENT. The way I see it if scientists are still trying to understand how it works what hope the lay person?

This is wiki but it's still interesting and something to think about.

Ghrelin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-09-2009, 06:17 AM
 
1,467 posts, read 1,881,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCreass View Post
It's so easy to judge others and accuse them of being just "lazy". I try not to do that -- everyone is different; some people are strong and go through life making all the right decisions, while others are weak, or misinformed and simply do not know any better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mearth View Post
Everyone knows nutrition and exercise will keep you healthy. So why do so many people ignore it? Certainly, with the rate of obesity in this country, that many people are not simply lazy or stupid.

I think part of the reason why people want to categorize them as such, is to protect themselves. If there is something universally human about why the obese have gone down that road, then that makes it equally likely that anyone else can. The Name-Callers choose to believe that they are of a different ilk, when really, anyone could end up there under the right circumstances. And that terrifies them.
There are people in my family that are obese. Therefore, I am always cognizant about how I discuss this issue. In fact, I never resort to name-calling, such as calling a person lazy or stupid. It is interesting how some people "hear" name-calling when the issue of "individual choice" comes up. Please understand that these two points can be mutually exclusive. Immediately jumping on the "name-calling" bandwagon only serves to deflect attention away from the individual choice argument. Yet, there is validity in this argument. So Mearth, while I appreciate your attempt to psychologize the "inner workings" of those who would dare to bring up the "individual choice" argument, I believe that this psychologizing is misplaced.

BCreass, you are correct in stating that society does play a role in making processed foods readily available. And, it is true that it the over-consumption of these highly processed foods that has led many Americans to become overweight. This is all true. Yet, it does not negate the fact that many people are obese, not because they have a mental disorder, but because they choose to consume these highly processed foods.

Clearly many people are aware that some of the foods that they consume are not good for them. Yet they consume them because they simply like them. This, in and of itself, is not a mental disorder. It's a choice. And, if that person is happy with their choice, then that's fine. If, however, they want to lose weight, then falling back on a I have a mental illness or society has caused my problems will not help.

If we know that there are many causes to obesity, why aren't some people willing to say that one of those causes is simply that many people choose to eat certain foods that lead them to be obese?
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:22 AM
 
Location: SUNNY AZ
4,589 posts, read 11,750,109 times
Reputation: 1831
So now there's a "reason" to be unhealthy?? wow ok...didn't know that. And I know a lot about the other side..I'm a PT and i've seen and heard almost everything you can imagine.....I've also seen people with the HUGEST "reasons" to be obese make the decision to be healthy and they've done it. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you guys in my professional opinion.

It's actually very sad that you all can sit here and command pitty and understanding about weight issues that can be changed when there are kids out there suffering from serious illnesses....I just watched an ESPN special last night on a 10 year old who was terminally ill and I thought of this thread.....makes absolutley no sense to me and i'd be totally ashamed if I were in here acting like a victim of obesity knowing what others are going through that is uncontrollable.......very sad

This thread is so absolutley sad...i'm done here. go ahead and continue the pitty/excuses party...love to see how far that gets ya'.
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:49 AM
 
Location: SUNNY AZ
4,589 posts, read 11,750,109 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
lola, I get that you don't get it but I think perhaps the problem with understanding is that anything you deem as an excuse isn't necesarily an excuse but a reason. Different thing entirely.

Fat and obese people who offer reasons as to why getting to and maintaining a healthy weight is difficult for them seem to be met with anger from you that they're making excuses when in fact their reasons could be very sound and quite legitimate. Unfortunately that makes things complicated if you're looking for a simple solution. I can't see the point to "wishing" the best for someone and negating them as a motivator.

The fact is that losing weight, getting to a healthy weight range and maintaining a healthy weight is extremely difficult for some people and I'm betting that if they're struggling along that path they're not going to want to spend too much time taking on board your point of view on it simply because you don't understand it AND it appears (and I could be wrong) that you view them as incomplete, less in some way and lacking in moral fibre. In other words you seem to want to blame them. IF you truly accepted the person for who they are, warts and all so to speak, you wouldn't be looking for an opportunity to blame them for not being able to accomplish something that seemingly is relatively easy for you. You'd be looking at a way to understand how it is they come to be where they are AND supporting them in finding solutions to change IF that's what they're wanting to do AND accepting them regardless IF they choose not to or are unable to.

I'll also add (not directed at you but at this thread in general) that seemingly there's a lot of people making assumptions about others.
You can't know jack about a person from looking at them OR about how they live their life or what their health is like. I realize that will be difficult for those who are visably physically fit to comprehend, who seemingly equate thin with health and fat with bad health or bad behaviour, but I find this to be the case. I've known many people in my life who have been big that actually take better care of their health than many of the thin people I know and are in fact in better health. I also know many people with a primary medical condition which pre-disposes them to gaining weight more readily and those for whom exercise is extremely difficult.

The other issue that seems to have been lost here is that fat and obesity can be a symptom of underlying health and psychological and emotional problems.

AND then there's the fact that you cannot tell from looking at a person if they lost weight this week, walked further than they did last week and generally improved their health and fitness simply by looking at them.

ALL very important points to remember when viewing someone AND ultimately one has to ask, WHY does it even interest those of you who profess to be fit and healthy? I though that fitness and good health was supposed bring great happiness to your life. I really don't get that from a lot of the posts I'm seeing here because if you're truly happy with you why the need to slam others?


I'd love for you to show me where I personally "Slamed" somone

I'd also love to know what "Reasons" there are to be obese and unhealthy...love to hear that.

As far as I'm concerned....you guys are the ones being cruel here as well as the ones doing all of the "slaming" so pathetic.
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