Fairbanks: heating oil Q (Anchorage, Healy: sales, condominium, mortgage)

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by blueflames50

oh Hogwash...Fairbanks just needs lots and lots of giant wind mills to create power so they can have electric heat and blow all the smog out!! oops forgot to insert the funny icons!!

No windmills around Fairbanks. Sometimes weeks go by without winds. What we need is natural gas or propane that's cheaper than heating fuel, but that won't happen for a very long time.

[gobrien]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

There is a big problem in Fairbanks in relation to wood smoke, smoke from every boiler and furnace in the Borough, from diesel vehicles (heavy equipment, city buses, etc.), and from the coal-burning power plants. To make things worst, the thermal inversions in Fairbanks are notorious. The problem can be resolved if natural gas can be brought to Fairbanks and vicinity via pipelines. In this case, boilers, furnaces, and some power plants. could be converted to run on natural gas. Unlike most others, natural gas burns clean.

As it is now, people have no choice but to burn heating fuel, wood, coal, and pellets, since the natural gas available at a few places in Fairbanks is quite expensive because it has to be transported to this area from Anchorage. Last Friday I got around 400 gallons of heating fuel, at a cost of $1,500 (43.25 per gallon because I get a pretty nice discount).

Ray, I'm glad you don't work in accounting or billing....

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by gobrien

Ray, I'm glad you don't work in accounting or billing....

I am glad my wife takes care of our finances

[richelles]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

No windmills around Fairbanks. Sometimes weeks go by without winds. What we need is natural gas or propane that's cheaper than heating fuel, but that won't happen for a very long time.

That may be true for low laying areas but at altitude the wind blows on a fairly consistent basis almost everywhere. That is one reason why you see so many wind turbines on mountain tops. Natural gas or Propane, when burned, create carbon dioxide which is not good for the environment. The less we use oil based fuels the cleaner our environment will be. And in Alaska it is probable that only the State could afford to put in the necessary number of wind turbines to insure an adequate supply of electrical energy. There are some means of cleaning coal fired power plants which take out almost all the fly ash and sulfur fumes which leaves only the vast amount of CO2 to be contained.

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by richelles

That may be true for low laying areas but at altitude the wind blows on a fairly consistent basis almost everywhere. That is one reason why you see so many wind turbines on mountain tops. Natural gas or Propane, when burned, create carbon dioxide which is not good for the environment. The less we use oil based fuels the cleaner our environment will be. And in Alaska it is probable that only the State could afford to put in the necessary number of wind turbines to insure an adequate supply of electrical energy. There are some means of cleaning coal fired power plants which take out almost all the fly ash and sulfur fumes which leaves only the vast amount of CO2 to be contained.

I understand your points, but the problem is that sometimes there is no wind for weeks at a time in Fairbanks. It often is not windy at all in Fairbanks, and even outside Fairbanks such as North Pole. For example, for weeks now the trees have had ice and snow accumulating on their branches. When this happens to trees such as birch and willow, the added weight makes them bow down almost to the ground. These trees won't be straight for years to come, since we haven't had the winds that usually blow the snow off them. Winds are welcomed in Fairbanks because it clears the air, but it hasn't been windy for a long time now.

Another point: windmills aren't going to produce enough electricity to heat the homes and building in the interior. It would be prohibitively expensive to heat one's home with electrical heaters. That's the reason why natural gas, propane, coal, and wood are used in Alaska.

This is the problem with have in Fairbanks:
Death of a Temperature Inversion, Alaska Science Forum

[gobrien]

There is a wind farm by Delta Junction.

Fairbanks Daily News-Miner - Delta Junction wind farm is online and ready to add another generator

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by gobrien

There is a wind farm by Delta Junction.

Fairbanks Daily News-Miner - Delta Junction wind farm is online and ready to add another generator

That's true. There was some "developer" or something like that who wanted to build a large wind farm in Delta Junction, and the reason is simple: it gets windy in Delta Junction

Another place where this is possible is by Healy, not too far from Mount McKinley (or Denali?).

[richelles]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

I understand your points, but the problem is that sometimes there is no wind for weeks at a time in Fairbanks. ... ... .... Winds are welcomed in Fairbanks because it clears the air, but it hasn't been windy for a long time now.

Another point: windmills aren't going to produce enough electricity to heat the homes and building in the interior. It would be prohibitively expensive to heat one's home with electrical heaters. That's the reason why natural gas, propane, coal, and wood are used in Alaska.

This is the problem with have in Fairbanks:
Death of a Temperature Inversion, Alaska Science Forum

Electricity can be transmitted over high tension lines for great distances so the location of wind turbines isn't a real consideration. Quebec Hydro has for a long time transmitted electricity from water power to the Eastern Seaboard of the United States and other than a few outages has been the supplier of choice in that region. Electricity can be used in a heat pump which uses the ambient temperature to produce heat which is quite efficient. I have a House in the Tennessee mountains which is totally heated by a heat pump with emergency heat coils in the ducts to be used in the event the heat pump fails. Since most of the electricity in that area is derived from nuclear and water power 1 have found the cost to be reasonable. Alaska could join the future and start water power here as well as wind and sunlight to slow down the air pollution which follows the use of the oil based economy. If we used the natural gas and oil to produce what only they can produce we could use that energy source for something other than producing carbon dioxide.

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by richelles

Electricity can be transmitted over high tension lines for great distances so the location of wind turbines isn't a real consideration. Quebec Hydro has for a long time transmitted electricity from water power to the Eastern Seaboard of the United States and other than a few outages has been the supplier of choice in that region. Electricity can be used in a heat pump which uses the ambient temperature to produce heat which is quite efficient. I have a House in the Tennessee mountains which is totally heated by a heat pump with emergency heat coils in the ducts to be used in the event the heat pump fails. Since most of the electricity in that area is derived from nuclear and water power 1 have found the cost to be reasonable. Alaska could join the future and start water power here as well as wind and sunlight to slow down the air pollution which follows the use of the oil based economy. If we used the natural gas and oil to produce what only they can produce we could use that energy source for something other than producing carbon dioxide.

We have several power plants in Fairbanks, but heating homes with electricity is not cost effective because it gets too cold in the interior. It can be done with a newly constructed home that is built using the AK and Canada cold weather construction codes, however. But building a home in Fairbanks is extremely expensive since the construction materials are brought in from the Lower-48 and overseas. Retrofitting an older home is quite expensive, too.

Heat pumps aren't used in the interior because the ground is frozen several feet deep. For example, if drilling a hole with an auger in my backyard by the end of May, the bit hits ice at 46" inches down. I have to wait until June or July before I can dig a 5' hole. UAF is conducting heat pump experiments each day.

Solar power works well one half of the year, but there is not much sunlight during the other half of the year. A lot of people use solar power during the summer months. Some others use windmills to produce electricity, but only when there is wind to make it work.

So far there is not a single most cost-effective product than heating fuel to heat homes. Well, there is coal, wood pellets, firewood, propane, and natural gas..All which are expensive, but more cost-effective than electricity for heating
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That said, there have been talks about water power. The problem is that most streams have salmon and other species that most people don't want to mess around with. Nuclear power has been tried in the past, too, and there are talks about new ones. But this will take decades.

[Dakster]

How does water power work in the winter when the water is frozen? (I know, stupid question...)

In your environment, it sounds like multiple technologies are needed. Wind, Solar, Water, and is geothermal even possible/practical??

Obviously, pellets, corn, and BioFuels can be used - all good/better for the environment and all help us with our oil addiction.

Sounds like an efficient home in the long run would pay for itself.