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Old 10-06-2011, 01:38 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,144,896 times
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Metaphorically and socially speaking. I should mention this is generally the case in post-19th century Western culture, which has now spread around the world too.

Just look at a typical magazine rack. Photos of women dominate magazines marketed to both men and women.

Women have such a variety of fashion styles etc to choose from and 'fashion' is still predominantly a female domain.

Women wear colourful, fancy clothing, more jewellry on average, wear makeup.etc, while in formal situations men wear generic tuxedos with bowties. Their individual sense of style is not celebrated. It's changing, but male fashion is still comparatively boring.

Women totally obsess about their body and their attractiveness to men. They are insecure about their attractiveness to other women as competition, and they base all their self-esteem on looks.

This may be a result of how much they have been objectified in the past. In the 1500s it was more as property, now the objectification is more sexual.

Nowadays it's popular to hear women say that objectively speaking females are better looking.

Why is this so? I don't think it's an innate human trait at all. I'm straight but men can be just as attractive in their own way, and if you strip away their makeup and fancy dresses and and cosmetics and spa treatments most men and women look just as plain.

In virtually all other species it is the male which is more eye-catchingly attractive or at least eye-catching, whether that be peacocks or lions. Females tend to be the plainer, duller ones.

Compared to say some birds and spiders, male and female apes look pretty similar, although there are some differences compared to say dogs. I think this is the case with humans, too. The average woman isn't objectively more beautiful than the average man, whether that be their face or their body.

Females were attracted to males with these attributes, while males were just attracted to most females in order to spread that seed. There was no impetus for the female to look particularly attractive...being healthy looking and fertile was all that was needed. It was the male who needed to get out there into battle, to be the most colourful etc.

My theory is that it is largely a result of capitalism. That's right, modern day capitalism, in particular. A result of trying to sell to the market by commercializing beauty and pre-packaging it and promoting to. Whether that be to entice men or to make women think they need it. Like they say, an advertiser tries to tell you that you need something that you really don't. It's a product of the modern lifestyle, in a large part, everything from selling razors to women to actresses and models defining beauty.

Another consequence of this is that more women have that princess complex, and more aspire to be some beauty queen. They seem themselves more and more as the prizes that men should be lucky to even dream of having. Being seen mainly as objects of desire has emptied themselves of their own personality and individuality, and alot of them are mannequin sheep all dolled up.

Last edited by Trimac20; 10-06-2011 at 01:51 AM..
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:44 AM
 
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We've already fed the monster, so we can't do much about it. Young women will continue to grow up and see all of this crap, and what seems to be naturally getting low self esteem if they don't have it. It has almost come to the point where I discriminate against women with too many accessories. We need more natural women.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:52 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,144,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganusn View Post
We've already fed the monster, so we can't do much about it. Young women will continue to grow up and see all of this crap, and what seems to be naturally getting low self esteem if they don't have it. It has almost come to the point where I discriminate against women with too many accessories. We need more natural women.
Yeah the more emphasis a woman puts on appearances, what others care about her, in general the more of herself she gives away.
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:31 AM
 
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You are mistaking what human "plumage" is. It is wealth, success, security, intelligence....and yes perhaps a flashy car or two....any and all of those things that a man will wave in his attempt to attract women. THAT is the "plumage" where humans are concerned.
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Tucson
42,837 posts, read 77,122,397 times
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Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
You are mistaking what human "plumage" is. It is wealth, success, security, intelligence....and yes perhaps a flashy car or two....any and all of those things that a man will wave in his attempt to attract women. THAT is the "plumage" where humans are concerned.
You know, Chess, even though I agree with this part, I've also wondered why only the human males and females are different than the other species in the looks department... I'm thinking that if everything is left to its own devices, both genders will perhaps look about the same. I also believe, because of having thicker skin, men do age better and not as fast. However, beginning from an almost equal starting point, most men and women take their looks in an opposite direction - women doing their best to look their best and men doing their best to look their worst (either because of being clueless, or because of being stubborn, or most frequently - both).
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:37 AM
 
23,906 posts, read 31,137,585 times
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Originally Posted by sierraAZ View Post
You know, Chess, even though I agree with this part, I've also wondered why only the human males and females are different than the other species in the looks department... I'm thinking that if everything is left to its own devices, both genders will perhaps look about the same. I also believe, because of having thicker skin, men do age better and not as fast. However, beginning from an almost equal starting point, most men and women take their looks in an opposite direction - women doing their best to look their best and men doing their best to look their worst (either because of being clueless, or because of being stubborn, or most frequently - both).
Yup. And that is one of the many things that we do that is a uniquely human trait.
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:39 AM
 
2,113 posts, read 2,242,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post

In virtually all other species it is the male which is more eye-catchingly attractive or at least eye-catching, whether that be peacocks or lions. Females tend to be the plainer, duller ones.

Compared to say some birds and spiders, male and female apes look pretty similar, although there are some differences compared to say dogs. I think this is the case with humans, too. The average woman isn't objectively more beautiful than the average man, whether that be their face or their body.
Are you seriously comparing accessories and beauty products to biological features?

Let's put a rainbow coat and crazy beads on the peahen and she'll be more eye-catching than the peacock. And add a weave to the lioness, dye it, give her a perm, a mani/pedi, add some silk robes. Who do you notice now?
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:33 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,144,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraAZ View Post
You know, Chess, even though I agree with this part, I've also wondered why only the human males and females are different than the other species in the looks department... I'm thinking that if everything is left to its own devices, both genders will perhaps look about the same. I also believe, because of having thicker skin, men do age better and not as fast. However, beginning from an almost equal starting point, most men and women take their looks in an opposite direction - women doing their best to look their best and men doing their best to look their worst (either because of being clueless, or because of being stubborn, or most frequently - both).
I think when you strip away the external things that differentiate the sexes, facially males and females can look surprisingly similar. There are women who no matter how many makeup they put on you can tell have a masculine facial structure, same goes for men with more feminine features. While alot of men can't pull off being drag queens some can quite convincingly. And when you add hormones I know alot of trans people (in real life) which you would barely suspect. There is a very real difference, of course, but all I'm saying is we've been trained to distinguish and differentiate these features, we are attuned to the particular features which are typical of one gender or the other, but if we try to look beyond this we see things aren't actually as different as they seem. They are somewhat different, but it's not like chalk and cheese.

Primates probably show among the greatest morphological difference between genders. I think it's because in most primate societies gender roles are more clearly defined. To be the best at raising children, the female needed those characteristics which suited that role of being a gatherer and a nurturer. These might include greater body fat for childbirth etc (the 'curves'), wider hips, being less aggressive and arguably more 'childlike' in appearance to relate better with children. This is probably where oestrogen comes in and what we mean by 'feminine' characteristics, those characteristics which oestrogen gives to women to make them better child-bearers and child-carers, just as the features which make men better hunters are seen as more 'masculine.' Better direct instead of peripheral vision, a more 'one-tracked' mind. Of course this is all evolutionary biology/anthropology, so it's not necessarily gospel, but it seems a pretty good explanation to me.

That's why male and female dogs and cats and most other species don't look different, apart from size. The size advantage was probably because there was selective pressure for bigger stronger males to compete for females to mate with.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:37 AM
 
Location: anywhere but here
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men are too busy with their hands down their pants channel surfing.
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:09 AM
 
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Being the showy peacock is what I enjoy about being female: fashion choices, nail art, variety of hairstyles, etc.
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