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Yes, I have noticed some gorgeous women wearing the Dorky Debbie glasses, I wonder if that is to keep the creeps away.
The funny thing is that a surprisingly high percentage of beauties are single because men are intimidated or think they must already be in relationships anyway...
I guess if you are absolutely beautiful you can't help but wonder if a person only likes you because of your looks...
I a not saying someone who is not beautiful must be ugly. Most people are in between those extremes. I do indeed think there are people who nobody thinks are beautiful, at least if they are honest and don't feel guilty for thinking that way.
Again, find one. You have the burden of proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
Nor is this thread about people who are more or less beautiful, it is about the extraordinarily beautiful people who are just irresistibly attractive to any eye
Given my unusual taste in women, it stands to reason that most who are seen as "extraordinarily beautiful" by the majority of "eyes" won't be so in my eyes. Just as I have never found one person who was categorically "not beautiful" across the boards, I have never found one person who was categorically "beautiful" across the boards. It amuses me greatly to see the people voted "most beautiful" in People magazine... *barf*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
However and again, this thread is not about the normally beautiful people, but the incredibly beautiful, de-facto perfect people.
No such people exist. The best that can be hoped for is someone who is seen as beautiful by a large majority of the population. "Perfection" in physical beauty is, always has been, and always will be a relative term. 120 years ago, the woman hailed as most beautiful (the "Hollywood standard" if you will) was 5'8" and 200 pounds. (Her name was Lillian Russell... look her up if you want.) Most people are extremely suggestible when it comes to beauty. These days most people would find a 5'8" 200 pound woman to be decidedly unattractive... but 120 years ago, said woman was the gold standard of beauty. If beauty were absolute, and there was a standard of "perfection", it would not change so drastically over time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
I am an atheist, I don't care what's in the bible. Beautiful people can also be very good people, and less beautiful and ugly people can also be very evil people. One has little to do with the other, regardless of what the bible says.
This isn't about good vs. bad. If you were religious and not an atheist, you would understand what I'm telling you. I prefer my thought process, where all people are logically beautiful. In your way of thinking, some people are labeled as "ugly" and it is an absolute rather than "oh well, he/she's just not my type". I find that more negative and repulsive than the belief that everyone is beautiful regardless of our own personal tastes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
I am very happy for you and your relationship with your wife However, when you say you don't have to look around at other women, that says more about your feelings than about whether or not you [dare] find other women beautiful as well.
As a normal man, I sometimes make split-second judgments about a person's attractiveness or lack thereof. I cannot help it... it's almost instinctive. I don't go any further than that, and I sure don't look around to see what attractive women I can find wherever I go, but that doesn't change the fact that said snap judgments never result in me finding someone more attractive than the one I have. There are other attractive women out there... I just have zero need to look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
Judging from the mere data, 400 pounds at 6'3", I probably wouldn't consider your wife one of the persons the op is talking about. Of course one idolizes the person one loves, that is fine with me. But I don't think that people in love are still objective and open-minded regarding this topic.
Perhaps not, but especially with men, if we're being honest with ourselves, we can only fall completely in love with a woman whom we see as physically beautiful. If a man doesn't love his woman's appearance, he doesn't love all of her and the love isn't complete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
Again, I am an atheist and I think physical beauty depends on genes and body care, nothing else.
So, in effect, you're playing God, making the absolute decision about what is, and is not, truly beautiful. Amusing. I love atheists... they make me laugh.
The OP was asking about truly beautiful people. I know he was referring to women whom MOST men find attractive. I get that point. But there is no such thing as absolute beauty unless you assume that everyone has it as they have been endowed by their Creator with it. Beyond that, beauty is ALWAYS subjective and nobody's opinion is any better than anyone else's... meaning there can be no such thing as "truly beautiful". Therefore, to talk about being truly beautiful, it follows that everyone is truly beautiful, the appearance-related aspect of beauty therefore drops out of the equation, and the only real differentiating factor is whether or not that person believes in her (or his) true beauty. The answer to the OP's question can come just as easily from a 6'3" 400-pound woman who truly believes herself to be physically beautiful as it could from a 5'9" 125-pound Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition cover girl who truly believes herself to be physically beautiful.
Wow, so much. Sorry, I don't feel like writing so much and engaging in a sentence by sentence back and forth. Suffice it to say that I see things completely different from you. So let's agree to disagree
The funny thing is that a surprisingly high percentage of beauties are single because men are intimidated or think they must already be in relationships anyway...
I guess if you are absolutely beautiful you can't help but wonder if a person only likes you because of your looks...
Well, women are in luck if they are pretty and they like attention. Most of the time the situation you mention is few and far between, guys are real creeps who cannot stop ooogling pretty women.
Myself.........well I am a very gorgeous, elegant and highly Pahr-fumed male who is really sick of the young ladies stalking me...........really.
Most women I've known that I'd call beautiful didn't fully know it, much to my surprise. They knew it to a degree, but it was not enough to remove the typical insecurities most women (and men for that matter) have about their looks. For this reason, many of them seem to date below their league, so to speak. In contrast, I have a friend I'd call pretty, but far from beautiful, but she projects this uber confident & flirty image; as a result, she seems to get more male attention than the beautiful ones.
Likely, the woman the OP describes was so appealing to many people because of her demeanor. She knew she was pretty & carried herself in a way that drew attention. If she had been equally beautiful, but somewhat unaware, then I'd bet she'd get less attention.
Most women I've known that I'd call beautiful didn't fully know it, much to my surprise.
That's because there is no absolute standard for beauty. They see something about themselves which differs from those airbrushed, Photoshopped pictures in Cosmo, and figure that that makes them "not beautiful".
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeapple
They knew it to a degree, but it was not enough to remove the typical insecurities most women (and men for that matter) have about their looks. For this reason, many of them seem to date below their league, so to speak.
And what is their league? In the end, the "no absolute beauty" thing extends to men too. We all have our tastes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeapple
Likely, the woman the OP describes was so appealing to many people because of her demeanor. She knew she was pretty & carried herself in a way that drew attention. If she had been equally beautiful, but somewhat unaware, then I'd bet she'd get less attention.
Now this I agree with. It is all over the place that beauty is in how you hold yourself, not in what you look like. Confidence is something that can have absolutes... which could be why men like it so much. For physical beauty, it is impossible to have absolutes.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't know.
However, it's nice being an "older" attractive lady. Still doesn't get me many dates 'cause I think I look mean and have a "don't mess with me" walk. Probably comes from living in the city.
I just read an interview with Daniel Hamermesh, a scientist who has investigated beauty and written a book about it, Beauty pays.
He says that those who are considered the top 20% of society in terms of looks earn about 10% more than the bottom 20% in terms of looks. And he says the verdict as to who is beautiful and who is ugly is anything but subjective. According to his tests basically all people judged any given person the same in terms of looks. So, it is not that one person finds x beautiful and the next person finds x ugly. The eye of the beholder is pretty much a myth, unfortunately, for me
He also found that there is a gender difference insofar as ugly women tend to stay at home more frequently than beautiful women, who often go to work. With men there is basically no difference in the percentage of ugly and beautiful men who go to work, probably because of the traditional roles.
I just read an interview with Daniel Hamermesh, a scientist who has investigated beauty and written a book about it, Beauty pays.
He says that those who are considered the top 20% of society in terms of looks earn about 10% more than the bottom 20% in terms of looks. And he says the verdict as to who is beautiful and who is ugly is anything but subjective. According to his tests basically all people judged any given person the same in terms of looks. So, it is not that one person finds x beautiful and the next person finds x ugly. The eye of the beholder is pretty much a myth, unfortunately, for me
He also found that there is a gender difference insofar as ugly women tend to stay at home more frequently than beautiful women, who often go to work. With men there is basically no difference in the percentage of ugly and beautiful men who go to work, probably because of the traditional roles.
Yeah, but that's only because we're brainwashed from birth to view certain people as beautiful and certain people as ugly. Studies have been done which show that cultures with no "Western influence" have vastly different views of feminine beauty than do cultures with Western influence. Specifically, the conclusion was that the ideal waist-to-hip for a woman, as judged by men, is 0.7:1 in cultures with Western influence... but in cultures without Western influence, it is 1:1. Now, could that be because most cultures are influenced by the American culture machine... such that the only cultures left untainted are remote tribes where strength and "toughness" are considered desirable traits in women, which would cause the bigger ones to be considered better catches? Sure. However, it's also been concluded that even in America and other similar cultures, a man's idea of beauty is shaped by what other traits he wants in a woman. For example, I knew a guy about my height (6'2") and size who really liked short skinny women... he said he liked them to be really small compared to him because he liked to feel like the big strong protector... he wanted a woman who needed to be protected. I'm the opposite way. I like a tough woman who could beat up most men and can go places by herself without me having to worry about what will become of her if I'm not there to protect her. I guess that's why I've always liked 'em big and fat.
And really, you say that there's a 10% income disparity between the supposedly "most beautiful" 20% of women and the supposedly "ugliest" 20% of women. That isn't much... it leaves a lot of room for statistical error. Could it be that the "ugly" ones have (on average) 10% less self-confidence than the "beautiful" ones, due to people who constantly trumpet about which specific feminine appearance is the absolute standard for beauty? After all, unless you're looking to become a physical trainer, your ability to do your job is projected to prospective employers through your confidence, not your physique. I'm betting that few employers would sooner hire someone they found attractive who didn't seem likely to be able to do the job, if they also had the chance to hire someone they found unattractive who seemed very likely to be able to do the job. People who lack confidence are also likely to lack the drive they need to chase down, and land, a really good job. So they'll settle for what they can get, just as they usually settle for what they can get in the "relationship department" as well. After all, you constantly see people who are considered "ugly" by moronic society dating others whom you just know are bad choices. But why do they stick with those choices? For the same reason why they'd stick with their jobs that pay, on average, 10% less than attractive people make.... because they don't feel like they can do any better, and they'd rather have something than nothing. It's all the same story.
I think, if everyone thought as I do about this (which is, thankfully, substantiated by the one and only true source of absolutes... the WORD OF GOD)... there would be no income disparity between "appearance types" of women... and there would be way less of a self-esteem vacuum in women. Let's stop preaching to everyone about who is beautiful and who is not... and instead, recognize the true physical beauty that every person possesses.
Again, find me one woman who would be seen as ugly by all men. If you do, I'll shut up. If you can't, then you can't prove me wrong and you are therefore conversely proving me right.
Last edited by RomaniGypsy; 12-02-2011 at 12:28 AM..
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However, when you say you don't have to look around at other women, that says more about your feelings than about whether or not you [dare] find other women beautiful as well.
