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Old 05-25-2012, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,757,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post

As for Walmart-
Just because many pretenious middle-class people lacking in the humility department use a theatric dislike of Walmart to try to prove something to or about themself doesn't mean classy or wealthy folks don't go to Walmart. I have no idea why anybody would say you wouldn't see a guy in a blue blazer in Walmart.
Who wants to overpay for toilet paper? But generally speaking, wealthier locales don't have a Walmart. They have Target.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Who wants to overpay for toilet paper? But generally speaking, wealthier locales don't have a Walmart. They have Target.
I don't know where you're located, but that's not really true here or most places as far as I know. Pretty much everybody has access to Walmart except the ghettos, which I wish in my city and others Walmart would build in relatively safe parts of depressed urban areas. They'd earn a lot of respect that way, I think. Oh and wealthy folks aren't isolated to "wealthy locales", but yeah a lot of particularly wealthy places cockblock Walmart. One wealthy neighborhood in my city even cockblocked Starbucks. As for Target - same thing as Walmart as far as I'm concerned. The difference is really negligible except for folks who want to play the "Target is better" game out of some sort of preteniousness and weird identity formulation. They're both stores for the working masses. It's just half of the broader working masses want to pretend they're better than the other half.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:20 AM
 
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Not necessarily, and not anymore! Meaning that it depends upon what state we are talking about. Hawaii, for example is a flip-flop paradise, Texas is "forever in Blue Jeans" for even the wealthiest.

Also depends upon the occasion. Some of the most monied folks in my orbit are dressing down. I can't speak for them but it's almost as if they are doing so, intentionally so that others won't know they have so much coin, or something like that.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,757,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
I don't know where you're located, but that's not really true here or most places as far as I know. Pretty much everybody has access to Walmart except the ghettos, which I wish in my city and others Walmart would build in relatively safe parts of depressed urban areas. They'd earn a lot of respect that way, I think. Oh and wealthy folks aren't isolated to "wealthy locales", but yeah a lot of particularly wealthy places cockblock Walmart. One wealthy neighborhood in my city even cockblocked Starbucks. As for Target - same thing as Walmart as far as I'm concerned. The difference is really negligible except for folks who want to play the "Target is better" game out of some sort of preteniousness and weird identity formulation. They're both stores for the working masses. It's just half of the broader working masses want to pretend they're better than the other half.
The Bay Area is actually "under-Walmarted" for its size. Most towns refuse to allow Walmart in. The same towns are A-OK with a Target. Walmart also, up until recently, targeted lower income areas and/or areas without much retail competition that were under-served. Not denser urban areas. Only in about the last 3-5 years have they started to target urban areas for new stores, since their growth slowed and Target started moving in with more urban stores in the past 10 years.

Hell will freeze over, before San Francisco or the wealthier parts of Marin County allow a Walmart to come to town. After years (decades) of trying, Target finally found a development that the SF politicians would approve of, and the first Target in the city limits is set to open later this year.

There is similar opposition for the wealthy suburbs directly east of Oakland. The Walmart in Oakland is really far from the wealthy areas of Oakland. About 8-10 miles from most of them.

Wal-Mart plans for smaller, urban stores with fresh food - USATODAY.com

Much of the Bay Area is "too urban" for a typical Walmart. Many of the stores are actually really small.

In a 30 mile radius of where I live (and I live in one of the denser sections) there are 11 Walmarts. 16 Targets. The Walmart's are in lower income cities or areas that were (are) far flung suburbs and were fairly rural up until about 20 years ago.

Last edited by jade408; 05-26-2012 at 12:36 AM..
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,565 posts, read 7,943,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
The Bay Area is actually "under-Walmarted" for its size. Most towns refuse to allow Walmart in. The same towns are A-OK with a Target. Walmart also, up until recently, targeted lower income areas and/or areas without much retail competition that were under-served. Not denser urban areas. Only in about the last 3-5 years have they started to target urban areas for new stores, since their growth slowed and Target started moving in with more urban stores in the past 10 years.

Hell will freeze over, before San Francisco or the wealthier parts of Marin County allow a Walmart to come to town. After years (decades) of trying, Target finally found a development that the SF politicians would approve of, and the first Target in the city limits is set to open later this year.

There is similar opposition for the wealthy suburbs directly east of Oakland. The Walmart in Oakland is really far from the wealthy areas of Oakland. About 8-10 miles from most of them.

Wal-Mart plans for smaller, urban stores with fresh food - USATODAY.com

Much of the Bay Area is "too urban" for a typical Walmart. Many of the stores are actually really small.

In a 30 mile radius of where I live (and I live in one of the denser sections) there are 11 Walmarts. 16 Targets. The Walmart's are in lower income cities or areas that were (are) far flung suburbs and were fairly rural up until about 20 years ago.
San Francisco is fairly unique. That area is very fascist. It's interesting the towns "won't let them it". I doubt they would be unsuccessful if they were allowed to build. But I've known about Walmart's direction toward urban stores for some time. In regard to truly urban-designed stores, Target is definitely ahead of Walmart, but then Walmart is ahead of them in rural and small-town locations.

Can you tell me which low-income cities in the SF Bay area have Walmart stores so I can look them up and see if I feel like my city's low-income areas are being cheated?
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,757,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
San Francisco is fairly unique. That area is very fascist. It's interesting the towns "won't let them it". I doubt they would be unsuccessful if they were allowed to build. But I've known about Walmart's direction toward urban stores for some time. In regard to truly urban-designed stores, Target is definitely ahead of Walmart, but then Walmart is ahead of them in rural and small-town locations.

Can you tell me which low-income cities in the SF Bay area have Walmart stores so I can look them up and see if I feel like my city's low-income areas are being cheated?
Low income in the Bay is still pretty high, but these are the more working class areas with Walmarts:
East Oakland
San Leandro/San Lorenzo (I don't know which city it is in, but these 2 cities are adjacent to each other)
Richmond
Martinez
Pinole
Union City (this area is getting a bit more upscale)

There are the formerly "in the sticks" areas with Walmarts:
Mountain View (I know it is hard to believe, but 30-35 years ago it was still pretty orchardy)
Pleasanton
Livermore
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:11 AM
 
18,837 posts, read 37,259,589 times
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My wealthy friends don't go to Wal Mart....they send their maids or personal assistants. I have a uber rich friend....I don't think he has even been shopping aside from ordering on line and going to "Whole Foods" for a decade. Barney's has a personal shopper for him, and brings things to his home.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,565 posts, read 7,943,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Low income in the Bay is still pretty high, but these are the more working class areas with Walmarts:
East Oakland
San Leandro/San Lorenzo (I don't know which city it is in, but these 2 cities are adjacent to each other)
Richmond
Martinez
Pinole
Union City (this area is getting a bit more upscale)

There are the formerly "in the sticks" areas with Walmarts:
Mountain View (I know it is hard to believe, but 30-35 years ago it was still pretty orchardy)
Pleasanton
Livermore
Martinez, Pinole, Union City, and Livermore would be middle-middle class suburbs here, judging by the percentage of adults with at least bachelor's degrees and income (roughly adjusted for COL). Mountain View and Pleasanton would be bordering on upper-middle class. The others you mentioned have stats that are reflective of what would be considered working-class, blue-collar, and lower-middle class suburbs here. All areas with similar demographics here do have Walmarts and are their primary target demos, if I had to guess, but then they have Targets too. So I guess my city isn't being cheated. But I still think it would be cool if Walmart went into more truly depressed areas that aren't served well, but I know theft is a major deterrent.

Are there no middle ground areas in in the Bay area? Is every neighborhood and suburb black-white, either-or, have or havenot?
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,757,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
Martinez, Pinole, Union City, and Livermore would be middle-middle class suburbs here, judging by the percentage of adults with at least bachelor's degrees and income (roughly adjusted for COL). Mountain View and Pleasanton would be bordering on upper-middle class. The others you mentioned have stats that are reflective of what would be considered working-class, blue-collar, and lower-middle class suburbs here. All areas with similar demographics here do have Walmarts and are their primary target demos, if I had to guess, but then they have Targets too. So I guess my city isn't being cheated. But I still think it would be cool if Walmart went into more truly depressed areas that aren't served well, but I know theft is a major deterrent.

Are there no middle ground areas in in the Bay area? Is every neighborhood and suburb black-white, either-or, have or havenot?
The middle ground decreases all the time, but ethnic makeup of the suburbs is very diverse.

The actual middle class areas are places like Castro Valley, Dublin (becoming less so every year), parts of Fremont (it is generally pretty expensive), half of Hayward, half of San Leandro, roughly half of Oakland, Redwood City, Daly City, Pinole, Martinez, Concord, Hercules, El Cerrito and El Sobrante. If you look at the housing prices for these areas, they'd look very upscale for most of the country. Same with the average income and percentage of bachelor degrees.

The Bay Area middle class keeps shrinking, because in reality, pretty much every place on this middle class list has crappy schools. They aren't on par with middle class schools in other areas of the country. To live in a pretty good school district, you need to pay around $600-650K for a small 3 bedroom home, so it makes it difficult for families to afford it. Additionally, many of these middle class places are crappy commutes to job centers. Most of the places on this list are about a 75 minute each way to Silicon Valley, if you happened to work there. SF commute times are more like 45 minutes for most places on the list....so you end up sacrificing quite a lot to raise a family in the Bay if you are middle class.

Pleasanton and Mountain View are upscale areas, but 30 years ago they were actually pretty rural and disconnected. Mountain View was a sleepy little town in the 70s. Pleasanton was basically the country with cows. Now Mountain View is a really popular spot for corporate headquarters (i.e Google, and a zillion others). Pleasanton has a few headquarters (most notably Safeway) but got extremely expensive over the past 15ish years.
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Old 05-27-2012, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,757,203 times
Reputation: 28561
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
But I still think it would be cool if Walmart went into more truly depressed areas that aren't served well, but I know theft is a major deterrent.
Actually, the Oakland location is in a very depressed section of Oakland. Or very close to the worst parts or Oakland (about 1-2 miles). There is actually a pretty huge dividing line in terms of amenities in Oakland. (One of the freeways). If you live close to that freeway, you'll have easy access to groceries shops etc. But if you live in East Oakland, there aren't many options.

I live in North Oakland. There are around 10 grocery stores within a 3 mile radius of my place. If you lived let's say on Deep East Oakland (the place where Oakland gets it rep from, and where about 65% of all crime in the city happens), there are about 2-4 grocery stores on that entire side of town. Most people who live over there leave and go to the neighboring town for groceries.

Walmart opening up was a good thing, it effectively doubled the number of choices for people in that part of town. (The other grocery stores in east Oakland are pretty far north of that point, Walmart is in the "80s" and the other groceries in east Oakland are concentrated around the 20s and 30s. Just a couple of months ago, the first new grocery store opened in East Oakland. For the first time in about 40 years.

Where I live? 2 Safeways were recently remodeled, 2 Trader Joes opened, a Whole Foods opened, and independent local grocery opened and the other 2 Safeways are in the remodeling process. In the past 5 years.
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