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Old 07-19-2012, 07:29 AM
 
Location: US
5,145 posts, read 10,426,168 times
Reputation: 5326

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
It's clear that you're not a fan of academic research or science. In society, we use these to identify patterns and determine relationships and correlations. While you're entitled to your opinion that goes against what human behavioral scientists have observed, there's no reason to attack xxbabeechick just because she believes in the credibility of this academic research.

According to this research, there is a correlation between the portrayed image, and their success. Philosophers attribute this to natural selection. There's few things, if anything, that us humans do that go against laws of nature.

Exactly. So you can be:
AVERAGE JANE:
Looks = 5
Brains = 5
total = 10

or
THE HOTTIE:
Looks = 9
Brains = 1
total =10

or
THE BRAIN:
Looks = 1
Brains = 9
total = 10

If you put in half efforts you won't be a total 10 and others will see that. Being "the best" or "prime" is about hitting that 10 overall. Not just on one element.


If you don't put the full fledged effort into working with what you have you will fall behind.
It may be because of your brains or your face. But if you want to be a 10 you HAVE to put forth the effort in one way or another.

Good looking people don't just pop out of bed and look that way anymore than someone wakes up with an instant educational background.


T.H.E. (The Hardest Ever) - YouTube

Go hard or go home.


Last edited by Opsimathia; 07-19-2012 at 07:39 AM..
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,361,269 times
Reputation: 48613
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
Surely!

Pretty women are given promotions or raises, even when they don't deserve them. I had a manager give another girl a promotion over me to full time because she'd 'be easier to look at 40 hours a week'. I noticed a HUUUUGE difference in the way the men I worked with treated the cute blonde girls over the average/not as attractive women. They were nicer, they'd open doors (while shutting them in my face) they offer to pick up lunch for them and then look at me and keep walking, if the pretty girls called in sick there was nothing but sympathy, but when the not so attractive girls did, there was nothing but complaints about how they didn't take their job seriously. The guys would constantly joke about needing more 'eye candy' and would hire women based solely on their looks and the rest of us had to pick up the slack because they would NEVER get fired. Unattractive girls? Fired at the first offense.

I could go on and on about how much better the pretty women are treated. I've witnessed it first hand.
I've been involved in panels for interviewing prospective employees, and have seen it, as well, from the interviewers' end.

We had an opening for a special education teacher, once, and it came down to two applicants...a cute (but not beautiful) woman in her midtwenties who had been teaching a year at an alternative school, and came off as very unhappy with her job, desperate to get out of it, had little relevant experience, made numerous red flag comments that indicated that she really didn't understand the legal ins and outs of the job, and said some pretty inappropriate things. The other applicant was a woman approaching 40 who had years of experience, was rather dumpy and, while not unattractive, maintained a very matronly appearance (close-cropped, no-nonsense haircut, shiny nude pantyhose, sensible shoes, no makeup to speak of, etc.). The younger girl was considerably dolled up. Applicant two gave very well-thought out responses to interview questions, seemed to consider everything carefully, asked good questions, knew her stuff, had a lifetime teaching certificate and relevant experience.

After we interviewed both applicants, the conversation with a good chunk of the panel seemed to revolve mainly around how looking young would help, and how our students respond well to pretty teachers (I call BS...our most beloved teacher is actually a woman happens to be 20 years over the average age of most other employees, is a grandmother, and is as round as she is tall, and wouldn't be most people's ideal of "pretty", but has the kindest heart and the most creative methods, both of which are pretty important for teaching severely disabled children). I and one other interviewer couldn't believe that people were actually considering a woman who displayed an alarming lack of professionalism and knowledge about her field, because she was cute and perky (if seemingly unstable). We didn't budge, and eventually, the others opted to hire the more qualified applicant, unflattering hairdo, shiny nude hose and all, versus have a hung jury.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:12 AM
 
9,415 posts, read 11,276,729 times
Reputation: 20186
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
I've experienced what she said first hand.

Its very true that the more attractive you are, the better you will do in your career regardless of your experience and knowledge.
I guess it depends on the job you're in. I'm an RN, we're judged on how good we are, not how pretty we are.

And in my opinion women buy in to this nonsense. The sooner stand up and fight for our right to be judged on our ability the better of we will be.

But then again, many people have a vested interest in keeping women insecure and subjugated by looks.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:37 AM
 
Location: US
5,145 posts, read 10,426,168 times
Reputation: 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
I've been involved in panels for interviewing prospective employees, and have seen it, as well, from the interviewers' end.

We had an opening for a special education teacher, once, and it came down to two applicants...a cute (but not beautiful) woman in her midtwenties who had been teaching a year at an alternative school, and came off as very unhappy with her job, desperate to get out of it, had little relevant experience, made numerous red flag comments that indicated that she really didn't understand the legal ins and outs of the job, and said some pretty inappropriate things. The other applicant was a woman approaching 40 who had years of experience, was rather dumpy and, while not unattractive, maintained a very matronly appearance (close-cropped, no-nonsense haircut, shiny nude pantyhose, sensible shoes, no makeup to speak of, etc.). The younger girl was considerably dolled up. Applicant two gave very well-thought out responses to interview questions, seemed to consider everything carefully, asked good questions, knew her stuff, had a lifetime teaching certificate and relevant experience.

After we interviewed both applicants, the conversation with a good chunk of the panel seemed to revolve mainly around how looking young would help, and how our students respond well to pretty teachers (I call BS...our most beloved teacher is actually a woman happens to be 20 years over the average age of most other employees, is a grandmother, and is as round as she is tall, and wouldn't be most people's ideal of "pretty", but has the kindest heart and the most creative methods, both of which are pretty important for teaching severely disabled children). I and one other interviewer couldn't believe that people were actually considering a woman who displayed an alarming lack of professionalism and knowledge about her field, because she was cute and perky (if seemingly unstable). We didn't budge, and eventually, the others opted to hire the more qualified applicant, unflattering hairdo, shiny nude hose and all, versus have a hung jury.


Great example of another way to be a ten!

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Old 07-19-2012, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,877 posts, read 28,154,657 times
Reputation: 25988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
I guess it depends on the job you're in. I'm an RN, we're judged on how good we are, not how pretty we are.

And in my opinion women buy in to this nonsense. The sooner stand up and fight for our right to be judged on our ability the better of we will be.

But then again, many people have a vested interest in keeping women insecure and subjugated by looks.
It happens a lot. I remember once having a conversation with a peer (as in similar level at work peer) and asked him to work on something for me. This guy was white and about 20 years older than I am. Anyway he basically said he doesn't mind doing favors for his "favorites."

On his scale, I was in the middle of the chart, well at least in terms of women. So he was willing to "help me out" but he prioritized some other "cute and bubbly" women (read the white women who were like 10 years younger than I am) on top of his list -- his favorites. The lowest person on his list? The white woman who was my age who was cranky and frumpy.

For him favorite = 20-something, bubbly, brunette and olive skin tone. His prioritization on his to do list had little to do with seniority, and was pretty much 100% based on looks. (There were other people who put lower on the list).
The list was something like this actually:
  • Cute 20-somethings
  • CEO
  • Cute 30 somethings (me and the HR lady)
  • friendly male peers
  • non-friendly male peers
  • frumpy women

Pretty much ranked by looks.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,361,269 times
Reputation: 48613
There also isn't a whole lot you can do to "stand up and fight for your right to be judged on your ability, versus your looks," when the discussion of whether or not you're cute enough to hire/promote happens behind closed doors after you've left the building. You don't even know it's happening.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,126 posts, read 25,794,118 times
Reputation: 16226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
I guess it depends on the job you're in. I'm an RN, we're judged on how good we are, not how pretty we are.

And in my opinion women buy in to this nonsense. The sooner stand up and fight for our right to be judged on our ability the better of we will be.

But then again, many people have a vested interest in keeping women insecure and subjugated by looks.
Could that be because nursing is a majority female career?

Try being a mechanic or in a majority male trade. I had to wear a full face of makeup when I was working on cars because if I didn't I wouldn't receive any help and they guys would basically ignore me. On the flip side, if I wore makeup, some guys wouldn't take me seriously.

I'd love to stand up and fight for my right to be judged on my ability over my looks, but unfortunately right now I live in a small town and if I stood up I'd never be able to find another job because I'd be seen as 'uppity' and 'bitchy'. Most men don't want a woman working in their shop in the first place, much less one that is known to cause problems. At this stage in my life I simply can't afford that...my career is in it's infancy and once I get a little more experience and clout I'll be able to be more demanding.

Eventually I'd love to start a shop with an all woman crew.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:03 AM
 
Location: The Midst of Insanity
3,225 posts, read 6,124,373 times
Reputation: 3209
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
Could that be because nursing is a majority female career?

Try being a mechanic or in a majority male trade. I had to wear a full face of makeup when I was working on cars because if I didn't I wouldn't receive any help and they guys would basically ignore me. On the flip side, if I wore makeup, some guys wouldn't take me seriously.

I'd love to stand up and fight for my right to be judged on my ability over my looks, but unfortunately right now I live in a small town and if I stood up I'd never be able to find another job because I'd be seen as 'uppity' and 'bitchy'. Most men don't want a woman working in their shop in the first place, much less one that is known to cause problems. At this stage in my life I simply can't afford that...my career is in it's infancy and once I get a little more experience and clout I'll be able to be more demanding.

Eventually I'd love to start a shop with an all woman crew.
I know quite a few women in the nursing/medical field, and they are incredibly cruel to one another and to other women. I've found, though, women in general aren't really nice to one another.

I work in the service industry, a professional admin-type setting. Makeup is absolutely necessary for me, and I've found this the older I get. When I was 20 I was a cute young girl and could get away with a bare face and not even brushing my hair, but as a 34 year old women I find now that people treat me a whole lot better if I'm "done up". Men and women alike.

Yes there is a flipside...if you have good looks people assume you must not be smart. Other women shun you. People say you're stuck-up or a "b****". People think you're either "brains or beauty". Not all beautiful women are empty-headed. Not all unattractive women are intelligent or have great personalities to make up for it.

Men are so obvious about it though. We have many regular customers, and some of the men like to "talk" with me regularly and are quite flirtatious. But the times my 22-year old female cowokers are around, these men will act like they don't see me and will literally avoid eye contact. Then when the young girls aren't around they want to be buddies again lol. I shrug it off now, what can you do? Men both young and older are guilty of this.

I never really noticed it until the past couple of years, and it's everywhere. There is a pool at my apartment complex, and there's aways a female attendant. One day, the attendant was a young (under 25) thin, pretty and perky girl and the maintenance staff (men) were out "helping" her and bringing her water, were very nice to her. Another day, the attendant was a different female, still young but overweight and not as "cute". When she asked one of the men for assistance, he was very rude to her, made faces and rolled his eyes. Both times these men acted shamelessly like this in front of me and other residents there. I know it's none of my business but it really put me off.

Funny thing is that these men were all middle-aged, overweight, very slovenly looking. As if that cute girl would have interest or desire for them. A lot of people accuse women of high expectations, but I find more men who think they should get super-model types when they themselves are Peter Griffin.

For all of the advancements, some things sure stay the same.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:39 AM
 
Location: US
5,145 posts, read 10,426,168 times
Reputation: 5326
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
Could that be because nursing is a majority female career?

Try being a mechanic or in a majority male trade. I had to wear a full face of makeup when I was working on cars because if I didn't I wouldn't receive any help and they guys would basically ignore me. On the flip side, if I wore makeup, some guys wouldn't take me seriously.

I'd love to stand up and fight for my right to be judged on my ability over my looks, but unfortunately right now I live in a small town and if I stood up I'd never be able to find another job because I'd be seen as 'uppity' and 'bitchy'. Most men don't want a woman working in their shop in the first place, much less one that is known to cause problems. At this stage in my life I simply can't afford that...my career is in it's infancy and once I get a little more experience and clout I'll be able to be more demanding.

Eventually I'd love to start a shop with an all woman crew.

The inside 10 you are working on is going to so much more useful. You will do it.

I do work in a male dominated field now. Its IT so the type of male is slightly different. But we are all ******y so it works. LOL

Chin up chickie. Use those MF for what you can learn and then leave them in the dust like the small minded small town trash they are.

(and fyi to everyone..you can be from a small town and NOT act like these cliche meatheads so don't get all in a huff)
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Astoria, NY
3,053 posts, read 3,428,459 times
Reputation: 2475
Quote:
Originally Posted by annika08 View Post
\
Funny thing is that these men were all middle-aged, overweight, very slovenly looking. As if that cute girl would have interest or desire for them. A lot of people accuse women of high expectations, but I find more men who think they should get super-model types when they themselves are Peter Griffin.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, men are completely and totally delusional, and nothing is more evidentiary of that than their behavior.
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