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Old 01-24-2013, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Noblesville, IN
3,687 posts, read 3,924,604 times
Reputation: 6122

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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
What female doesn't desire to look attractive? The point of this thread, as I see it, is that you can do so naturally by being healthy and vibrant, not putting on a false front to deceive the viewers and perhaps yourself.
Choice!

You know what's interesting is that I"m not disagreeing with that basic thought...but looking attractive for oneself, NOT solely to attract a mate. I wear a little makeup to work and sometimes when I'm going out with my husband or with friends. I really do it primarily because I'm kinda pale...and a little color on my face does make me look healthy and vibrant.

So many times, conversely, I don't wear makeup. Now, on the inside, I feel pretty dang good about myself. I do notice that strangers may do a double take on occasion...I can't fathom what strangers are thinking but I do get the impression that my "natural" look is a little too natural. It amuses me because like I said, I feel great.

I'm not trying to hide anything...I promise. I only object to the premise that there are only TWO reasons for wearing the stuff...that's it and that's all. That's always been my premise. Anyway, I do feel a little tinge of sadness for the women who feel they need it all the time...I posted an example of this days ago. I had a neighbor friend who felt that NO ONE could ever see her without her makeup. Unfortunately, even as a teenager, I could tell she was compensating for some other issues. Clearly that was her business and it didn't detract from my friendship with her, but I know others who had issues with her for it. Very strange.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Noblesville, IN
3,687 posts, read 3,924,604 times
Reputation: 6122
Oh, and I wanted to also point out that I was making a sarcastic remark regarding the First Lady. She's a beautiful woman but the point was that she's married and according to the OP, she shouldn't want to even try to be attractive. I thought that was a comical statement.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:58 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,159,772 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
When women don't wear make-up, they're accused of being slobs and not feminine. When women do wear make-up, they're accused of being shallow and deceptive. It doesn't matter WHAT women do, some people will find a reason to complain about it. Around 90% of the threads on this board are nitpicking what "all" women supposedly do or have, whether it's the size of our breasts, the length of our hair, the way we dress, the kind of make-up we wear, how much we weigh, the amount of body hair we remove, etc. It seems that women have to justify every little thing we choose to do with our bodies. How come I never see any threads about men getting bald, men with beer bellies, men wearing clothes that are either way too baggy or way too tight, etc.? If only men were as observant about themselves as they are about the opposite gender Some men on here are so damn entitled. They feel they "deserve" to have a supermodel girlfriend who is also sweet, intelligent, funny and obedient when they are utterly average themselves. And when they don't get the woman of their dreams, they come on here to complain about how women are superficial because they refuse to date average guys like them.
Come on ladies, you're falling behind, you need to get level with us!

And don't tell me that many wives don't complaining about their aging hubbies with their friends.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,775 posts, read 9,443,165 times
Reputation: 4238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellNic View Post
Choice!

You know what's interesting is that I"m not disagreeing with that basic thought...but looking attractive for oneself, NOT solely to attract a mate. I wear a little makeup to work and sometimes when I'm going out with my husband or with friends. I really do it primarily because I'm kinda pale...and a little color on my face does make me look healthy and vibrant.

So many times, conversely, I don't wear makeup. Now, on the inside, I feel pretty dang good about myself. I do notice that strangers may do a double take on occasion...I can't fathom what strangers are thinking but I do get the impression that my "natural" look is a little too natural. It amuses me because like I said, I feel great.

I'm not trying to hide anything...I promise. I only object to the premise that there are only TWO reasons for wearing the stuff...that's it and that's all. That's always been my premise. Anyway, I do feel a little tinge of sadness for the women who feel they need it all the time...I posted an example of this days ago. I had a neighbor friend who felt that NO ONE could ever see her without her makeup. Unfortunately, even as a teenager, I could tell she was compensating for some other issues. Clearly that was her business and it didn't detract from my friendship with her, but I know others who had issues with her for it. Very strange.
Probably not, I'm projecting. I used to be that way. But when I look at young girls today, so many of them are trying to be something they aren't, including the makeup, the implants, the cosmetic surgery, bulemia, and fad diets. Confidence is built from the inside, knowing who your are and having goals, and a sense of purpose.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:40 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 43,159,772 times
Reputation: 11862
I think we should differentiate just wearing makeup and getting so obsessed with it to the point that one feels the NEED to wear it. Some women are in the first category, some in the second. If one relies on something for beauty it kind of makes the idea of 'natural' beauty redundant.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,775 posts, read 9,443,165 times
Reputation: 4238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I think we should differentiate just wearing makeup and getting so obsessed with it to the point that one feels the NEED to wear it. Some women are in the first category, some in the second. If one relies on something for beauty it kind of makes the idea of 'natural' beauty redundant.
I agree with that.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:52 AM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 789,920 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecda View Post
We're getting somewhat off-topic here, since the original discussion was why women feel the need to wear makeup.

But since it's been brought up, it seems relevant to point out that the "pay differential" is quickly reversing itself. Not evening out. Reversing.

In Pictures: 15 Jobs Where Women Earn More Than Men - Bakers - Forbes.com
Do Men Really Earn More Than Women? - Infographic - PayScale
Women win gender pay war in their 20s earning more than men of the same age | Mail Online
Income Gap Closing: Women On Pace To Outearn Men

In an attempt to put this thread back on the rails, I've been reading up on the topic quite a bit.

The 2004 Real Truth About Beauty study, conducted by Dr. Nancy Etcoff, Dr. Susie Orbach, Dr. Jennifer Scott, and Heidi D’Agostino, looked at 3,200 women, aged eighteen to sixty-four, across ten countries, and found that 68 percent of women used makeup products to feel more physically attractive. A 2008 study commissioned by the Dove Self-Esteem Fund studied girls aged eight to seventeen and discovered that 62 percent feel insecure or not sure of themselves. Seventy-one percent of girls with low self-esteem felt their appearance did not measure up and felt they weren't pretty enough. (Source)

Here are a few articles I've found about the culture and psychology of makeup. Mostly studies and surveys, one psychologist's opinion.

Half Of Women Are Dependent On Makeup, Study Says
A new study by the Harris poll, conducted on behalf of the Renfrew Center Foundation which researches eating disorders, shows that 44% of women feel unattractive without any makeup on. The study also found that one-quarter of women started wearing makeup at age 13 or younger. Glamour magazine also reported on this study, but I don't have a link for that.

Going make-up free is more stressful than a job interview | Mail Online
A poll of 3,000 women found that more than two thirds of women would be too scared to go to work without a full face of makeup. Leaving the house bare-faced for the commute to work would be more stressful than public speaking, a job interview or even a first date for most women, according to the survey for the Vitality Show. 70 percent said that they would not want to be seen by their work colleagues or bosses without their hair and make-up done. Some 91 percent of women said they would cancel a first date rather than turn up bare-faced.

Boycott Makeup in Dating | Psychology Today
This is a psychologist's view on makeup. His opinion piece starts: Let me start by saying that I believe men can be feminists, and I most certainly consider myself one of them. I advocate for women because I think they are subject to far too many double standards in our culture. One of these standards, of course, has to do with beauty and physical appearance. It is for this reason that I recently starting thinking about makeup.

Women spend 43 weeks of their life applying make-up and perfecting their face before a night out | Mail Online
These stats are from a poll of 1,020 women by St. Ives.
-Nearly 1/3 of women want to cut the amount of time they spend applying makeup
-Only 13% of women have the confidence to go without makeup
-Roughly 1 in 10 women said nothing could make them go without makeup
-One fifth of women believe their friends look better wearing makeup
-Forty-one percent of women feel unable to tell their friends a natural look is better

In my opinion those are some pretty sad statistics. Personally, I like a strong, confident woman who is comfortable in her own skin. Same goes for men for that matter. Having faceful of makeup applied at all times is not likely to convince me that someone (male or female) is being honest, that the person has confidence, or that the person likes him or herself. Instead, such a person is likely to convince me that the individual is wasteful, vain and lacks confidence--traits I personally dislike.

Damning evidence for the "I only do it for myself crowd" and all the women that get up in arms on this thread. I cited some psychological abstracts as well, and you will get the typical uneducated response that is "bullsht" or some other refutation. Yet another poster that actually "gets" it and knows exactly where I am coming from.

Quote:
In my opinion those are some pretty sad statistics. Personally, I like a strong, confident woman who is comfortable in her own skin. Same goes for men for that matter. Having faceful of makeup applied at all times is not likely to convince me that someone (male or female) is being honest, that the person has confidence, or that the person likes him or herself. Instead, such a person is likely to convince me that the individual is wasteful, vain and lacks confidence--traits I personally dislike.
This is 100% how I feel, couldn't have said it better myself!
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:02 AM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 789,920 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellNic View Post
Oh, and I wanted to also point out that I was making a sarcastic remark regarding the First Lady. She's a beautiful woman but the point was that she's married and according to the OP, she shouldn't want to even try to be attractive. I thought that was a comical statement.

Actually, she of all people should be trying to send healthy psychological messages to the impressionable youth and those who struggle with self-image.

Instead she wears high priced dresses, changes them multiple times during evens, probably gets $500 haircuts, wears excessive amounts of makeup, etc, etc.

She has used her position to try and become a movie star style figure, further isolating herself from the average American and if some little girl does look up to her, they better start saving for the Valentino clutch.

She is not beautiful, she is an average looking women. Superlatives lose meaning when you attach them to every person, beautiful means the very best. If she was walking down the street, wasn't famous and FLOTUS you wouldn't think twice or think anything beyond average. The same with Laura Bush (Why isn't she beautiful according to you?) she is also average looking women.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:07 AM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 789,920 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellNic View Post
Choice!

You know what's interesting is that I"m not disagreeing with that basic thought...but looking attractive for oneself, NOT solely to attract a mate. I wear a little makeup to work and sometimes when I'm going out with my husband or with friends. I really do it primarily because I'm kinda pale...and a little color on my face does make me look healthy and vibrant.

So many times, conversely, I don't wear makeup. Now, on the inside, I feel pretty dang good about myself. I do notice that strangers may do a double take on occasion...I can't fathom what strangers are thinking but I do get the impression that my "natural" look is a little too natural. It amuses me because like I said, I feel great.

I'm not trying to hide anything...I promise. I only object to the premise that there are only TWO reasons for wearing the stuff...that's it and that's all. That's always been my premise. Anyway, I do feel a little tinge of sadness for the women who feel they need it all the time...I posted an example of this days ago. I had a neighbor friend who felt that NO ONE could ever see her without her makeup. Unfortunately, even as a teenager, I could tell she was compensating for some other issues. Clearly that was her business and it didn't detract from my friendship with her, but I know others who had issues with her for it. Very strange.
The psychological abstract had two categories, seduction and/or camouflage. Since you aren't "attracting a mate" then you clearly have some level of disappointment in your appearance that you need to wear makeup, or camouflage. You said it yourself in this very post that you look "too" natural and you can't fathom what strangers but you assume its "too natural". You just exactly proved my point/premise and have argued up and down with me the whole time. You may be only slightly self conscience of your skin, but others are of much more than that - the magnitude varies, but the underlying reason is the same.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Noblesville, IN
3,687 posts, read 3,924,604 times
Reputation: 6122
Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
The psychological abstract had two categories, seduction and/or camouflage. Since you aren't "attracting a mate" then you clearly have some level of disappointment in your appearance that you need to wear makeup, or camouflage. You said it yourself in this very post that you look "too" natural and you can't fathom what strangers but you assume its "too natural". You just exactly proved my point/premise and have argued up and down with me the whole time. You may be only slightly self conscience of your skin, but others are of much more than that - the magnitude varies, but the underlying reason is the same.
Wow...I can assure you that I'm not disappointed with the way I look. YOU really don't know ISH... I said I'm pale. I like to wear makeup to look a little brighter...I don't think you can translate that to the extremes that you are. And since you still think it's one or the other, you absolutely can't see another side to it. It's black and white with you. And the study cited covers HOW many women?

I said I can't fathom what they think because I haven't asked them directly, but that is to say, I don't care what they think...it was a comment I thought was amusing. Clearly, you have no sense of humor and can't tell when someone is trying to turn the tone of the post around. You are being antagonistic by misinterpreting what I'm saying.
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