U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Fashion and Beauty
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-25-2013, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Noblesville, IN
3,687 posts, read 3,923,776 times
Reputation: 6122

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
Actually, she of all people should be trying to send healthy psychological messages to the impressionable youth and those who struggle with self-image.

Instead she wears high priced dresses, changes them multiple times during evens, probably gets $500 haircuts, wears excessive amounts of makeup, etc, etc.

She has used her position to try and become a movie star style figure, further isolating herself from the average American and if some little girl does look up to her, they better start saving for the Valentino clutch.

She is not beautiful, she is an average looking women. Superlatives lose meaning when you attach them to every person, beautiful means the very best. If she was walking down the street, wasn't famous and FLOTUS you wouldn't think twice or think anything beyond average. The same with Laura Bush (Why isn't she beautiful according to you?) she is also average looking women.
Since you're not a young girl, or a girl whatsoever, how can you interpret what kind of message is being received by her? When I look at her, I think she's strong and confident, not afraid to be pretty (even though she gets criticized for it). She IS the first lady and she DOES have a reputation to maintain for the sake of her husband and her country. Who are you to say otherwise?

And btw, beauty is not subjective thing. I think she's beautiful. I truly do...there's something in her eyes that just radiate a beauty to me. You may not think so but your opinion is not fact. You are very tiresome with that whole concept...you need to get over it...although you probably never will. How sad.

And please show me where I EVER mentioned Laura Bush. Good God, way to misinterpret the printed word. I personally think Laura Bush had a beauty about her because she's so put together and classy. I think most of the first ladies fall into the classy category...and when you exude class, I also think that's another form of beauty.

You are confused...maybe you want to feel free to wear makeup as a man, as you do in your profile picture, and perhaps you're feeling "boxed in" so you feel the need to put down all but one opinion of all the women who've responded. I'm guessing you don't have any real women as friends...certainly not ones that you're close to...if you were even half as condescending to them as your are here, I'm sure they run...and fast. It's not a good quality...just sayin'.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-25-2013, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Noblesville, IN
3,687 posts, read 3,923,776 times
Reputation: 6122
I meant to say "objective"...beauty isn't a set of rules...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2013, 08:01 AM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 789,737 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellNic View Post
Wow...I can assure you that I'm not disappointed with the way I look. YOU really don't know ISH... I said I'm pale. I like to wear makeup to look a little brighter...I don't think you can translate that to the extremes that you are. And since you still think it's one or the other, you absolutely can't see another side to it. It's black and white with you. And the study cited covers HOW many women?

I said I can't fathom what they think because I haven't asked them directly, but that is to say, I don't care what they think...it was a comment I thought was amusing. Clearly, you have no sense of humor and can't tell when someone is trying to turn the tone of the post around. You are being antagonistic by misinterpreting what I'm saying.
Then ShellNic, why do you like to look a little brighter (you said you have pale skin and you must view that as a negative)? Why do you cover your natural skin with makeup when you go out or to work, etc? (I presume you don't get out of the shower and put on makeup if you plan on staying home or not going out in public)

You feel prettier I assume? So to become prettier (perception), you have to logically assume that you were not as pretty in your own eyes before you put on the makeup, because you assume others have the same perception as you do of your face. Again, no one puts on makeup for their own consumption, it is meant to be for other people. It may be to make yourself feel better, but its about how others see your enhanced face and react to it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2013, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Noblesville, IN
3,687 posts, read 3,923,776 times
Reputation: 6122
Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
Then ShellNic, why do you like to look a little brighter (you said you have pale skin and you must view that as a negative)? Why do you cover your natural skin with makeup when you go out or to work, etc? (I presume you don't get out of the shower and put on makeup if you plan on staying home or not going out in public)

You feel prettier I assume? So to become prettier (perception), you have to logically assume that you were not as pretty in your own eyes before you put on the makeup, because you assume others have the same perception as you do of your face. Again, no one puts on makeup for their own consumption, it is meant to be for other people. It may be to make yourself feel better, but its about how others see your enhanced face and react to it.
I do NOT view "pale" as a negative. I live in Texas, however, and putting on makeup (even if its a little) is protecting my face from the sun. A little color IS natural though and I add it through makeup. You don't have to understand...it's just how it is. I do see what you're saying about covering my "natural" face...but it's NOT because I think I have to have it to get approval from others. I can assure you that's not the case. I do like to brighten up a bit...on occasion...because I feel brighter...it's a boost to my spirit.

AND...sometimes I do put it on when I plan on staying home...I just like being a girl...I don't understand why you have to associate that with some need for approval from others...and the reason I say this is because I'm old enough to know what I need from others and what I don't. Approval is a funny thing and again, I can assure you, that I'm not seeking it through makeup.

What I object mostly with is your language. You can't seem to move beyond "assumptions" and "presumptions". You really want to put all women in a box with a tidy little bow. I'm not rejecting the two reasons you offer, but rather rejecting that they are the ONLY TWO out there to discuss. Then you criticize those opinions only to say that we're "confused" or "lying to ourselves". Surely you can see how inflammatory this is...you ask for opinions and clearly you don't give a crap because you think you have all the answers.

This has to be the most trivial post I've ever kept responding to but I do it because I have hope that you can unlock some of those assumptions...but hey, I don't know you and really don't care (in the end) where you land. I do think you're going to continue to have issues though...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2013, 08:55 AM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 789,737 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellNic View Post
Since you're not a young girl, or a girl whatsoever, how can you interpret what kind of message is being received by her? When I look at her, I think she's strong and confident, not afraid to be pretty (even though she gets criticized for it). She IS the first lady and she DOES have a reputation to maintain for the sake of her husband and her country. Who are you to say otherwise?

And btw, beauty is not subjective thing. I think she's beautiful. I truly do...there's something in her eyes that just radiate a beauty to me. You may not think so but your opinion is not fact. You are very tiresome with that whole concept...you need to get over it...although you probably never will. How sad.

And please show me where I EVER mentioned Laura Bush. Good God, way to misinterpret the printed word. I personally think Laura Bush had a beauty about her because she's so put together and classy. I think most of the first ladies fall into the classy category...and when you exude class, I also think that's another form of beauty.

You are confused...maybe you want to feel free to wear makeup as a man, as you do in your profile picture, and perhaps you're feeling "boxed in" so you feel the need to put down all but one opinion of all the women who've responded. I'm guessing you don't have any real women as friends...certainly not ones that you're close to...if you were even half as condescending to them as your are here, I'm sure they run...and fast. It's not a good quality...just sayin'.

No one ever comments on Laura Bush or Nancy Reagan, they were just FLOTUS during a less vain times and the media love affair wasn't as rabid.

Jackie O was the prettiest of the FLOTUS' in my personal opinion. Like I said before, Michelle O isn't anymore beautiful than an average women. She was nothing when she wasn't FLOTUS, and was wife of a Senator from Illinois. She is a product of her position, and if you ask me she is built rather manly (shoulders) with an average looking face.



Back to the actual thread.

I've never felt the need to wear makeup, if you don't like my skin then I guess I'm not good enough for someone and I'll be quite OK and understand I didn't cut it for that persons level of beauty. However I will not artificially enhance myself to make someones grade.

I've absolutely offended people with my bluntness at times, and probably scared off a couple material girls and some guy friends because of how I feel about a host of things not just this. To me this serves a purpose to weed out those who can't handle this kind of direct, at times difficult, blunt discussion and at times arguments (I don't want people I have to coddle or dance around issues with people in my life). I've also told other girls that I find them very attractive at times when they probably didn't expect it, and maybe for reasons they don't expect. I like to think of myself as the epitome of a the proverbial straight shooter.

If you want to be told you are gorgeous for putting makup on your face, and be lied to then I am definitely not the guy your type would like and the feeling is mutual (you would be most beautiful to me when you are perfectly natural). I am not going to crucify a girl for putting on some makeup, but If it is to a point that is has to be done for everything it will play a role in how I believe her psychological self worth is and potentially a deeper issue and maybe something I don't want to deal with because it probably doesn't stop there. (I picture someone when I have to go to the grocery store and they would have to get ready for that, that kind of makeup wearer.)

I honestly don't get caught up on looks 24/7, it is a big part to any relationship but like I said before I would rather date/marry a naturally pretty (in my eyes, doesn't have to try and be a supermodel) nerdier-type that has brains, stimulating conversation about science, politics, economics, philosophy and just simply is comfortable with herself versus a makeup wearing, bleach blonde, tanning bed using, cheerleader type. I think it is why I gravitate towards asian (currently with Chinese woman) women more so now than I did when I was younger, they seem to be more down to earth and more resistant to vain societal pressures and I find many of them extremely beautiful, and usually they are just being themselves and have priorities that I cherish.

You can slam me up and down, I bet if you actually knew me and know how I thought you would find that I am definitely atypical but I like to think I am doing it for the right reasons.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2013, 08:57 AM
 
316 posts, read 465,851 times
Reputation: 571
This is basically an argument of Utilitarian vs. Aesthetic.

Some people think everything needs to be "useful" and if it's not, they don't see the point. There are people who pave over their front lawns because they need an additional parking space and don't see the point/need of a lawn. There are people who will tape their glasses together even though they have the money to buy new ones because the tape does the job and they see no point in throwing them out because they are ugly looking. There are people who will never go to the Container Store to buy uniform organizing boxes because any old random boxes around the house will do the job just as well (even though the mismatched look may not be pleasing to the eye). These people are on the utilitarian side.

Then there are people who will not just plop food down on their plate but instead, like to present it somewhat artfully. There are people who like to make sure all their bathroom towels are the same color because it is pleasing to the eye. There are people who like to play/listen to a musical instrument which has no real purpose but to please the ear with its beautiful sounds. There are people who like to put on makeup because it enhances (not changes) their features and they enjoy looking at a beautiful face (whether someone else's or their own.) These people appreciate beauty for beauty's sake. They appreciate things that are aesthetically pleasing (whether or not it is utilitarian.)

Some questions to ponder:
Why do people drink cocktails? They serve no nutritional benefit.
Why do people eat decadent desserts? Again, no real nutritional value here.
Why do people have long hair? Hair covering the scalp may have some benefits for shielding the scalp from sunburn, but hair longer than a pixie cut? Why is that needed?
Why do we "need" musical instruments? They don't accomplish any "useful" tasks.
What is the purpose of a sculpture? It's only purpose is to look at it and admire it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2013, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Noblesville, IN
3,687 posts, read 3,923,776 times
Reputation: 6122
Your opinion about the first lady is noted...but just because you feel the way you do does not make it a universal truth.

Most of what you are saying, I can agree with. I'm direct...people don't generally like that. I'm not considered blunt because I don't tend to hurt people's feelings...I think that's mean...even if the truth hurts, I try to soften it a bit. So I can see how you are and I can appreciate your beliefs. Really...no kidding.

And I also agree that "SOME" people/women try to camoflauge or hide their faces, stemming from possibly deeper issues, but you have to see that not all those women suffer from some deep seated problem. It's a mixed bag. I'm glad you've narrowed down what works for you...but it IS my wish that while you are one way, that you realize it's not the only way.

I think the Utilitarian vs. Aesthetic argument is very interesting. I'd have to say, from my perspective, I'm a little of both. I see no reason to get new things when my old things are just fine. On the other hand, I think aesthetics also play a big role in my life. I love a beautifully set table, or yummy dessert...the craftmanship of some things is noteworthy and to be enjoyed. Art comes in many forms...and beautiful is just plain ol' beautiful. We don't have to read into everything. And you don't have to dismiss all answers just because you don't share that same thought in your head.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2013, 09:50 AM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 789,737 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by photostoresheila View Post
This is basically an argument of Utilitarian vs. Aesthetic.

Some people think everything needs to be "useful" and if it's not, they don't see the point. There are people who pave over their front lawns because they need an additional parking space and don't see the point/need of a lawn. There are people who will tape their glasses together even though they have the money to buy new ones because the tape does the job and they see no point in throwing them out because they are ugly looking. There are people who will never go to the Container Store to buy uniform organizing boxes because any old random boxes around the house will do the job just as well (even though the mismatched look may not be pleasing to the eye). These people are on the utilitarian side.

Then there are people who will not just plop food down on their plate but instead, like to present it somewhat artfully. There are people who like to make sure all their bathroom towels are the same color because it is pleasing to the eye. There are people who like to play/listen to a musical instrument which has no real purpose but to please the ear with its beautiful sounds. There are people who like to put on makeup because it enhances (not changes) their features and they enjoy looking at a beautiful face (whether someone else's or their own.) These people appreciate beauty for beauty's sake. They appreciate things that are aesthetically pleasing (whether or not it is utilitarian.)

Some questions to ponder:
Why do people drink cocktails? They serve no nutritional benefit.
Why do people eat decadent desserts? Again, no real nutritional value here.
Why do people have long hair? Hair covering the scalp may have some benefits for shielding the scalp from sunburn, but hair longer than a pixie cut? Why is that needed?
Why do we "need" musical instruments? They don't accomplish any "useful" tasks.
What is the purpose of a sculpture? It's only purpose is to look at it and admire it.
That has been brought up before, and to some extent yes I has a partial role in this. But facial makeup is unique as it is almost done exclusively for other people's consumption and almost nothing to do with your own.

If you for example have the like bathroom towels matching in color, you yourself can enjoy the aesthetics along with others. It has a direct pleasing effect on your own eyes, it is practical to a sensory function which is sight. This is directly equivalent to why you would sleep on a bed instead of a concrete floor, the sensory function that is pleased is your sense of touch (the comfortable bed versus hard floor).

The part where makeup loses its practicality it isn't able to be viewed by the underlying person unless they are in a mirror or reflecting pool which is about .001% of the total time someone is sporting makeup over their lifetime.

No one, including myself is solely utilitarian when they do almost anything. Of course I properly matched the paint in my house with the flooring, and cabinets and appliances. It is such a small, not-time-consuming process to choose what I like one time that will last for the duration of my home, and not only will others hopefully enjoy it - I will the most of all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2013, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Hawaii/Alabama
1,595 posts, read 2,969,104 times
Reputation: 3983
I am totally blind; I lost my sight when I was 39. I still apply make-up because it makes ME feel better. My Husband thinks I do not need make-up but I enjoy it!

I shop at Sephora where the sales ladies are trained to know which products look best on a customer and I know that the colors that they choose for me are good.

I think that if a woman enjoys make-up then she should not have to explain to others why she choose to wear it. Just because another person thinks that it is silly, unecessary or due to psychological issues it simply does not make it so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-25-2013, 11:17 AM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 789,737 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by melaniej65 View Post
I am totally blind; I lost my sight when I was 39. I still apply make-up because it makes ME feel better. My Husband thinks I do not need make-up but I enjoy it!

I shop at Sephora where the sales ladies are trained to know which products look best on a customer and I know that the colors that they choose for me are good.

I think that if a woman enjoys make-up then she should not have to explain to others why she choose to wear it. Just because another person thinks that it is silly, unecessary or due to psychological issues it simply does not make it so.

You essentially prove my point for me, despite your unfortunate circumstances. You cannot under any circumstances view the enhancements you put on your face.

You are doing it because it physically feels good on your face? I've never heard that before, actually I've heard the opposite that most women despise the feeling of makeup on their faces but do so anyway.

You being blind doesn't mean you don't have the same psychological reasons as anyone else for it.

Additionally, I never said people had to justify why they were it. This thread is optional, and not forcing anyone to do anything. Participation is voluntary, so I don't know what you are alluding to.

I have to ask, if you are totally blind how on earth did you find this thread, read through the thread and then type a response if you don't mind me asking?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Fashion and Beauty
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top