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Old 01-30-2013, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
41,162 posts, read 32,846,148 times
Reputation: 57380

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Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
Yaya the libertarian-when-its-convenient is back!
I see that the thread started by the guy with a ton of hair products in his hair who doesn't understand women at ALL is still active.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:01 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,150,721 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
I didn't see your response before, but of course men are subject to some parallels to makeup in their own regard.

I actually have a "friend" that has made a bizarre turn for the worse in my opinion and has started to paint his fingernails black, wears eyeliner and does odd hairstyles. He looks like a freak, and while the reason this is done deep down is anyone's guess, I suspect some sort of underlying issue. This just magnifies it because its culturally unacceptable for a man to wear makeup.

Do the same reasons women provide hold true for him? Is it simply "artwork" for "himself"?

As far as combovers, I would think that is pretty obvious that it is a futile attempt to falsify more hair than you have. Hair represents vitality, youth, health and no one wants to send the message to others that you are opposite of these traits. So yes, I agree those have similar psychological intentions to makeup.

The "working out" argument doesn't hold water for two reasons. There are practical applications for getting stronger and healthier which are main focus of working out. You have increased utility from all muscle groups strengthened, especially if you are into sports, manual labor or another area that requires muscle usage (there are a ton of applications). The second or first reason depending on your motives, is better overall health. You live longer, have more energy, etc, etc from being active.

The sculpting of the body is a byproduct of this, while I am sure some people solely workout for this reason the majority do not.
What about a man (or woman) who builds muscles yet smokes cigarettes and gets drunk every weekend and eats unhealthy food? There are lots of people who work out for looks, not for health. And you do finally admit that a man wearing hair gel is not that different from a woman wearing makeup. You've ignored every question on this thread about your own hair gel use. You must have the same insecurities and low self esteem as all those materialistic women wearing makeup.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
21,518 posts, read 22,770,905 times
Reputation: 45319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
What about a man (or woman) who builds muscles yet smokes cigarettes and gets drunk every weekend and eats unhealthy food? There are lots of people who work out for looks, not for health.
I don't know that you can argue that working out in a gym isn't artificial. A guy who's a roofer or an athlete is going to be strong from doing his job. A guy who sits at a desk all day and then goes to a special building to run in place and pick up and put down heavy things is kind of a phony, no?
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:37 AM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 791,230 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
I don't know that you can argue that working out in a gym isn't artificial. A guy who's a roofer or an athlete is going to be strong from doing his job. A guy who sits at a desk all day and then goes to a special building to run in place and pick up and put down heavy things is kind of a phony, no?

By definition, it is gray. Man-made (artificial) can be looked at two ways. Does the body natural build muscle given certain circumstances (naturally occuring) or does the use of weights by the man make the body into what it is? It is too much of a derailment to consider that, it is trivial.

Just because you get paid to do something that has a byproduct (roofer/athlete) that you get physically stronger absolves you of that label? I think that's pretty ridiculous.

I think someone who works a more mentally stimulating position then has the motivation to workout to further their health, strength and stamina unpaid and voluntarily is more impressive to me. Are all those trait more desirable than the antithesis? Would you rather live a shorter life, have less endurance and be weaker? No one would logically come to that conclusion.

Would you criticize a brain surgeon who probably doesn't get much physical exertion throughout the day for going running or working out? I wouldn't, I would actually expect it since his profession is the leader of the health movement.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:52 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,150,721 times
Reputation: 3579
Thanks for ignoring my posts again and again. I guess I'm not saying what you want to hear.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:16 PM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 791,230 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Thanks for ignoring my posts again and again. I guess I'm not saying what you want to hear.
It doesn't make sense, I can't answer a question that doesn't have an answer. How is it phony? Is he not actually lifting weights/working out or is he? I don't know how someone who works out can be phony. (it is binary, you workout or you don't.)

If you are implying that working out itself is artificial, which means man made I gave you an answer. It is a gray area that is a chicken or the egg argument and pointless for the discussion at hand.

You are insinuating that if you don't have a profession that makes you stronger, faster, bigger, etc that you have no business having those enhancements by alternative means (working out voluntarily). I think it's a stupid notion frankly.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:36 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,150,721 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
It doesn't make sense, I can't answer a question that doesn't have an answer. How is it phony? Is he not actually lifting weights/working out or is he? I don't know how someone who works out can be phony. (it is binary, you workout or you don't.)

If you are implying that working out itself is artificial, which means man made I gave you an answer. It is a gray area that is a chicken or the egg argument and pointless for the discussion at hand.

You are insinuating that if you don't have a profession that makes you stronger, faster, bigger, etc that you have no business having those enhancements by alternative means (working out voluntarily). I think it's a stupid notion frankly.

Well for starters, it would help to actually read my post.
This is what I said:
Quote:
What about a man (or woman) who builds muscles yet smokes cigarettes and gets drunk every weekend and eats unhealthy food? There are lots of people who work out for looks, not for health. And you do finally admit that a man wearing hair gel is not that different from a woman wearing makeup. You've ignored every question on this thread about your own hair gel use. You must have the same insecurities and low self esteem as all those materialistic women wearing makeup.
In response to your post:
Quote:
I didn't see your response before, but of course men are subject to some parallels to makeup in their own regard.

I actually have a "friend" that has made a bizarre turn for the worse in my opinion and has started to paint his fingernails black, wears eyeliner and does odd hairstyles. He looks like a freak, and while the reason this is done deep down is anyone's guess, I suspect some sort of underlying issue. This just magnifies it because its culturally unacceptable for a man to wear makeup.

Do the same reasons women provide hold true for him? Is it simply "artwork" for "himself"?

As far as combovers, I would think that is pretty obvious that it is a futile attempt to falsify more hair than you have. Hair represents vitality, youth, health and no one wants to send the message to others that you are opposite of these traits. So yes, I agree those have similar psychological intentions to makeup.

The "working out" argument doesn't hold water for two reasons. There are practical applications for getting stronger and healthier which are main focus of working out. You have increased utility from all muscle groups strengthened, especially if you are into sports, manual labor or another area that requires muscle usage (there are a ton of applications). The second or first reason depending on your motives, is better overall health. You live longer, have more energy, etc, etc from being active.

The sculpting of the body is a byproduct of this, while I am sure some people solely workout for this reason the majority do not.
Many people work out for reasons of vanity that have absolutely nothing to do with health. My point being that you are unfairly singling out women who use makeup when the realty is, many men and women do things to alter their appearance that have absolutely nothing at all to do with health or hygiene. Hair gel being one example.

Last edited by Dorthy; 01-30-2013 at 12:45 PM..
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:50 PM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 791,230 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Well for starters, it would help to actually read my post.
This is what I said:


In response to your post:


Many people work out for reasons of vanity that have absolutely nothing to do with health. My point being that you are unfairly singling out women who use makeup when the realty is, many men and women do things to alter their appearance that have absolutely nothing at all to do with health or hygiene. Hair gel being one example.

My apologies, I confused your post with fleetie's
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:05 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,150,721 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
My apologies, I confused your post with fleetie's
OK, so nothing to say?

I also answered a post where you talked about makeup being toxic and when I replied that many women sought out chemical free alternatives such as mineral makeup the post was ignored.

When I responded to your post where you painted a false dichotomy of women either being "naturally pretty, nerdier-types that have brains, stimulating conversation about science, politics, economics, philosophy and who are simply comfortable with themselves" vs " makeup wearing, bleach blonde, tanning bed using, cheerleader types" and pointed out the falseness behind your presumptions, it was also ignored.

Last edited by Dorthy; 01-30-2013 at 01:39 PM..
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,126 posts, read 25,835,422 times
Reputation: 16226
[QUO=derosterreich;28013430]It doesn't make sense, I can't answer a question that doesn't have an answer. How is it phony? Is he not actually lifting weights/working out or is he? I don't know how someone who works out can be phony. (it is binary, you workt or you don't.)

If you are implying that working out itself is artificial, which means man made I gave you an answer. It is a gray area that is a chicken or the egg argument and pointless for the discussion at hand.

You are insinuating that if you don't have a profession that makes you stronger, faster, bigger, etc that you have no business having those enhancements by alternative means (working out voluntarily). I think it's a stupid notion frankly.[/quote]

Oh please. The vast majority of people who work out are doing it for vanity and not health. You don't hear people say 'wow, she looks like she's been focusing on her health and she looks much stronger!'. No, they say 'she looks like she lost weight and now she's hot!'.

All you have to do is look at the thread where you're posting about how unattractive and worthless 'fat women' are to see you true colors. I'm stronger and healthier than most people I know and take FAR better care of my body than my slender friend who models over in LA who subsists on diet coke, cigarettes and fig newtons (she swears they are nutritious) but you would probably peg her as healthier than me because she's thin.

Just admit it, you work out solely for vanity sake because you have deep seated psychological issues.
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