U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Fashion and Beauty
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-18-2013, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Moscow
2,078 posts, read 2,915,001 times
Reputation: 2524

Advertisements

Great question. I know I am frequently happier NOT knowing peoples opinions on various things. Ignorance is bliss!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
We’ve seen in this thread much defense of tattoos as being yet another form of self-expression, one that’s come to transcend obsolete stigmas and to offer new outlets for creativity. Fine. But please help me to understand: what is so laudable and appealing about overt self-expression in the first place?

I refer to bumper stickers, T-shirts with written remarks, posters in dormitory rooms, office cubicle-decorations and whatever else channels our desires to “make a statement”. 100 years ago, it was not considered so essential to display one’s viewpoints or communal associations. Quite the contrary; it was regarded as boorish. Clothing consisted of solid-color fabrics. Products were not “personalized”. Instead, people wrote poetry, composed songs, met for debating sessions. Now we plaster our most pithy remarks on our suitcases and sedans. Tattoos are merely the next step, injecting under one’s skin what would otherwise be stitched into one’s shirt.

Again I ask: what’s the appeal of overt self-expression?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-18-2013, 05:50 PM
 
3,884 posts, read 7,437,311 times
Reputation: 3297
I vehemently oppose tattoos. They are just plain stupid. In 2013 people who do not have tattoos are the true punk rockers!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2013, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Mesa, AZ
451 posts, read 598,275 times
Reputation: 1164
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
Plus, as a Christian man, I can believe naught else but God created us to look exactly as He intended for us to look.
I think God cares more about how we serve Him and treat other people than what we put on our skin.

I currently have no tattoos, but if I were to get one, it would be of a sparrow. The hymn "For His Eye Is On The Sparrow" was the favorite of both of my maternal grandparents, both of whom have gone on to be with the Lord. They had a very strong, positive impact in my life. I have also spent most of my life up to this point learning the lesson behind the song, that God will provide for me no matter how scary the future may seem. I don't think He would object to a constant visual reminder of that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2013, 06:11 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 14,765,382 times
Reputation: 10227
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
We’ve seen in this thread much defense of tattoos as being yet another form of self-expression, one that’s come to transcend obsolete stigmas and to offer new outlets for creativity. Fine. But please help me to understand: what is so laudable and appealing about overt self-expression in the first place?

I refer to bumper stickers, T-shirts with written remarks, posters in dormitory rooms, office cubicle-decorations and whatever else channels our desires to “make a statement”. 100 years ago, it was not considered so essential to display one’s viewpoints or communal associations. Quite the contrary; it was regarded as boorish. Clothing consisted of solid-color fabrics. Products were not “personalized”. Instead, people wrote poetry, composed songs, met for debating sessions. Now we plaster our most pithy remarks on our suitcases and sedans. Tattoos are merely the next step, injecting under one’s skin what would otherwise be stitched into one’s shirt.

Again I ask: what’s the appeal of overt self-expression?
In an earlier post I (a discreetly tattooed 55 year old female) made the distinction between tats that are personal and easily-hidden, and very public tattoos, such as facial or neck or hand tats.

So, there's that. Not all tattoos are making a "statement" to the general public.

As to your question.

Quote:
what’s the appeal of overt self-expression?
Well, almost everyone does this - in their choice of style, clothing, makeup, hairstyle, decision to have or not have tattoos or piercings, automobiles, opinions. In fact a complete lack of or avoidance of any sort of "self-expression" and the choice to conform 100 percent to whatever conformist norms you feel comfortable with is in itself a statement, when you come to think of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2013, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,126 posts, read 25,844,862 times
Reputation: 16226
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiroptera View Post
In an earlier post I (a discreetly tattooed 55 year old female) made the distinction between tats that are personal and easily-hidden, and very public tattoos, such as facial or neck or hand tats.

So, there's that. Not all tattoos are making a "statement" to the general public.

As to your question.



Well, almost everyone does this - in their choice of style, clothing, makeup, hairstyle, decision to have or not have tattoos or piercings, automobiles, opinions. In fact a complete lack of or avoidance of any sort of "self-expression" and the choice to conform 100 percent to whatever conformist norms you feel comfortable with is in itself a statement, when you come to think of it.
Yep. The only statements my tattoos make are 'This chick likes birds and thinks flowers are pretty'. I guess one of them says 'she also likes airplanes, and playing guitar' but those tattoos are rarely seen.

Everyone is conforming. Every. Single. Person. There is basically nothing you can do NOT to conform to something else. No matter what a special snowflake you think you are there are always other people who are into the same thing you think you're unique for. That includes people who think they're 'rebelling' because they don't have tattoos.

So, basically, do what makes you happy... as long as that isn't 'mass genocide' or punching randoms in the throat. That's not cool.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2013, 06:24 PM
 
Location: SNA=>PDX 2013
2,438 posts, read 2,824,726 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
We’ve seen in this thread much defense of tattoos as being yet another form of self-expression, one that’s come to transcend obsolete stigmas and to offer new outlets for creativity. Fine. But please help me to understand: what is so laudable and appealing about overt self-expression in the first place?

I refer to bumper stickers, T-shirts with written remarks, posters in dormitory rooms, office cubicle-decorations and whatever else channels our desires to “make a statement”. 100 years ago, it was not considered so essential to display one’s viewpoints or communal associations. Quite the contrary; it was regarded as boorish. Clothing consisted of solid-color fabrics. Products were not “personalized”. Instead, people wrote poetry, composed songs, met for debating sessions. Now we plaster our most pithy remarks on our suitcases and sedans. Tattoos are merely the next step, injecting under one’s skin what would otherwise be stitched into one’s shirt.

Again I ask: what’s the appeal of overt self-expression?
The appeal of it....is because we are individuals. We are not the same. Period. And throughout time, we've expressed it differently, but it has been there all along.

I mean, what is wrong with overt self-expression?

Even poetry, songs, art, and writing is overt self-expression. Many of the "greats" were controversial back in their time. I don't think it's essential to display one's POV, however, I think with social media and technology alone, we can do that more readily than back then. 100 years ago, there wasn't mass silk screening for t-shirts, presses to make bumper stickers, or computers to create signs/memes. But I'm sure people would wear controversial clothing, OMG, skirts that weren't ankle length, bonnets that weren't a certain color. This has been going on forever, but in different ways.

All that you described is self-expression. And at one time or another, it was judged and not seem as mainstream. And btw, everything back then was "personalized" because things weren't mass made. Clothing was made by hand, men wore shirts with their monograms on the cuffs (barely see that anymore), women stitched monograms on everything. Am I going too far back? Is that not personalized and overt self-expression? What about the families that put their family crest on EVERYTHING!!!! Bragging about which family/clan they belong to? You can call it pride, I can call it self-expression.

Just curious, would you rather everyone in this country wear the same outfit, drive the same car, own the same things? Etc? Because that would be "lack of overt self-expression".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2013, 07:08 PM
 
6,849 posts, read 4,441,657 times
Reputation: 12014
Quote:
Originally Posted by psichick View Post
The appeal of it....is because we are individuals. We are not the same. Period. And throughout time, we've expressed it differently, but it has been there all along.

I mean, what is wrong with overt self-expression?

Even poetry, songs, art, and writing is overt self-expression. Many of the "greats" were controversial back in their time. I don't think it's essential to display one's POV, however, I think with social media and technology alone, we can do that more readily than back then. 100 years ago, there wasn't mass silk screening for t-shirts, presses to make bumper stickers, or computers to create signs/memes. But I'm sure people would wear controversial clothing, OMG, skirts that weren't ankle length, bonnets that weren't a certain color. This has been going on forever, but in different ways.

All that you described is self-expression. And at one time or another, it was judged and not seem as mainstream. And btw, everything back then was "personalized" because things weren't mass made. Clothing was made by hand, men wore shirts with their monograms on the cuffs (barely see that anymore), women stitched monograms on everything. Am I going too far back? Is that not personalized and overt self-expression? What about the families that put their family crest on EVERYTHING!!!! Bragging about which family/clan they belong to? You can call it pride, I can call it self-expression.

Just curious, would you rather everyone in this country wear the same outfit, drive the same car, own the same things? Etc? Because that would be "lack of overt self-expression".
The very term “conformity” implies a mass culture regarding which an individual makes conscious connection. The implication is that there’s a definitive mainstream, and that individuals have an implicit obligation to self-assess whether and to what extent they will embrace this mainstream, or to “rebel”. I disavow the very notion. Exactly against what ought we to be rebelling? Fashion? Mass media? Parental teaching? The church? The government? “Conformity” and “rebellion” strike me as corny and decrepit terms, with a middle-class boredom where the basic problems of life have been resolved, and we seek a direction for our yearnings. Personally I don’t trouble myself to behold whether this or that aspect of my behavior conforms to expectations (whose?) or flaunts them. Rebellion? I followed the dictates of my parents when such things were logical (which, frankly, was most of the time), and “rebelled” otherwise. What statement is so breathtakingly profound, that we so yearn to express it through display of our persons, be it tattoos or slogans or brand-identification or a recitation of catechism?

I express myself through literature, not decoration of my body or my possessions.

My point is not that the statement of individual opinions is groundless or ought to be suppressed. Were that to have been the case, it would have been patently hypocritical to even post on this Forum. Rather, I contend that our words and deeds express our message, and not our possessions or the symbology of our adornments. Towards the latter, I’m reminded of pre-agricultural tribes who mark themselves in specific ways, do identify who belongs and who is alien. One would like to believe that modern societies have matured beyond such things.


The driving of different cars or the wearing of different clothing is a matter of specializing towards the particular purposes of one's life. They are not a scheme of communicating one's political orientation, or tastes in music etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2013, 07:54 PM
 
5,849 posts, read 2,989,855 times
Reputation: 5851
Whew!
So many thoughtful and informative posts here--I am sorry I can't reply to them all.
Thank you for your replies----I am surprised at the VARIETY of reactions here around tattoos. I have really learned a lot from these comments.
Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2013, 08:07 PM
 
Location: SNA=>PDX 2013
2,438 posts, read 2,824,726 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post

I express myself through literature, not decoration of my body or my possessions.

My point is not that the statement of individual opinions is groundless or ought to be suppressed. Were that to have been the case, it would have been patently hypocritical to even post on this Forum. Rather, I contend that our words and deeds express our message, and not our possessions or the symbology of our adornments. Towards the latter, I’m reminded of pre-agricultural tribes who mark themselves in specific ways, do identify who belongs and who is alien. One would like to believe that modern societies have matured beyond such things.

And others express themselves in their own ways. That was my point. Others express themselves through decoration of their bodies or their possessions. Neither is wrong. Expression of oneself is whatever they make it out to be. I think of Eminem. Him expressing himself, his art, is his music. Some people hate him and everything he "stands for", others love it.

And no, modern societies have not matured beyond such things. I mean, we still "mark" ourselves to identify who we belong to....surnames is a mark. You could say, it's not marking the body, but in fact, it is still a public mark for all to see. And I bet you, the reason modern society marks itself through possessions and our bodies, is because it's a way of showing who we belong to, or don't belong to. It's about saying who we are. Humans, by nature, want to express themselves and want to belong to something. It's just that times have changed and so have the mediums.

Personally though, I don't see marking ones body as any different than expressing oneself through any other medium.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2013, 08:59 PM
 
1,463 posts, read 1,818,126 times
Reputation: 2481
This is quite a long thread and I didn't go through it all, but OP the thing is I don't think that stigma really exists anymore.
Maybe back years ago, a long time ago, tattoos were only for a certain type, or only bikers or men or something had them. But not anymore. The thing is, young women have them. A lot of women, a lot of people. There's nothing to worry about anymore, times have changed. So no, they obviously do not worry anymore. Tattoos aren't a problem or a stigma. BTW I don't have one, they aren't me. Or maybe I change my mind too much. But I think views and times have changed so to just answer your question, no, it's not a worry anymore.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Fashion and Beauty
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top