Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Women are individuals, just like men, and because so many women are tired of feeling like their bodies are up for grabs no matter WHAT we wear, many have started to try a new approach of self acceptance and rejecting the ideas of seeking approval from others.
I certainly do not view all women and all people the same. I'm sorry that your perception of me is so different than what I intended, but I can understand how you could feel insulted by my comments.
My reason for responding in this thread is to explore the factors that influence the way things are. I believe there is a lot going on behind the scenes, and I don't blame women or men for it really. If you about moving towards greater self acceptance and doing your own thing, I think that is wonderful.
MissLadyLexi25 for academic purposes watch Adam Curtis' BBC Documentary "The Century of Self"
Here's a condensed version of it for the attention deficit ridden:
My problem is that with men, for them to be "socially acceptable" in today's society, they either have to be rich, smart, funny OR attractive.
With women, for the most part, you have to be considered attractive first and foremost. If you're only attractive, then you're considered a "hot piece," but many think you're dumb, a ****, etc. Being rich, smart and/or funny are pluses, but you should be attractive (at least somewhat, and definitely not fat) first and foremost.
I don't have a problem with sexy women modeling lingerie or starring in porn videos or maybe even modeling regular clothes. But, why do we have size 8 women modeling plus-size clothing? Why does every ad for EVERYTHING have to feature a "sexy," often half-naked woman? Why does every rated-R movie have to have a topless scene?
Also, people say in defense, "Well, women are portrayed as sexy on TV and movies, while men are portrayed as dumb or blah blah blah."
Well, here's my thing. The point is, most of our population isn't sexy, attractive, smart, rich AND funny, male or female. Men are loved in their movie and TV roles for whatever part they are chosen to play. Women are expected to be attractive. Not only that, but in today's world, if a man is a good provider for his family, then he's one of the "few that we have left." A woman has to work full-time, take excellent care of her kids, take good care of her home and STILL be in good shape, thin, have her hair and makeup right, dress well, etc. to not be considered a failure. Yes, even when women are portrayed as being "awesome" on television and in movies, it does often seem like a set-up. If you aren't all of these things as a woman, you're a failure. If you're a man with a job, you're awesome -- whether you're attractive or not.
My problem is that with men, for them to be "socially acceptable" in today's society, they either have to be rich, smart, funny OR attractive.
With women, for the most part, you have to be considered attractive first and foremost. If you're only attractive, then you're considered a "hot piece," but many think you're dumb, a ****, etc. Being rich, smart and/or funny are pluses, but you should be attractive (at least somewhat, and definitely not fat) first and foremost.
I don't have a problem with sexy women modeling lingerie or starring in porn videos or maybe even modeling regular clothes. But, why do we have size 8 women modeling plus-size clothing? Why does every ad for EVERYTHING have to feature a "sexy," often half-naked woman? Why does every rated-R movie have to have a topless scene?
Also, people say in defense, "Well, women are portrayed as sexy on TV and movies, while men are portrayed as dumb or blah blah blah."
Well, here's my thing. The point is, most of our population isn't sexy, attractive, smart, rich AND funny, male or female. Men are loved in their movie and TV roles for whatever part they are chosen to play. Women are expected to be attractive. Not only that, but in today's world, if a man is a good provider for his family, then he's one of the "few that we have left." A woman has to work full-time, take excellent care of her kids, take good care of her home and STILL be in good shape, thin, have her hair and makeup right, dress well, etc. to not be considered a failure. Yes, even when women are portrayed as being "awesome" on television and in movies, it does often seem like a set-up. If you aren't all of these things as a woman, you're a failure. If you're a man with a job, you're awesome -- whether you're attractive or not.
And here is my point, all men don't look at attractiveness at a primary. Also, different guys like different things, and nobody expects you to doll up in a bikini either.
For all I care, were decent clothes and be presentable according to occasion, and that goes for either gender. Are we loafers or what, there are other far more important things for men to care about than relationships.
I imagine that women wear mini skirts, heels and halter tops because it's what they're comfortable wearing? It's not "asking for attention" when a person wears what he or she is comfortable wearing. Maybe these people aren't comfortable wearing dress slacks, low heels and a nice top? Just like some men aren't comfortable wearing a tuxedo, I suppose? Some people dress to receive attention and others don't. It's better to err on the side of caution and just assume that everyone wants to be respected, no matter how they're clothed.
I live in eastern North Carolina, and it gets extremely, extremely hot here during the summer. It's common for the daytime temperatures to stay in the 90s+ for two months at a time, with heat indexes climbing to 105+. It's also extremely humid. In those temperatures, wearing less clothing is extremely appealing...and why not try to look semi-cute while doing it, especially when your hair is gonna be a frizzy mess?
Also, believe it or not, not all women are dressing for the attention of men. It might be a nice side effect for some, but I'm a happily married woman who dresses to look good for myself and my husband. Many women want to look good for other women -- otherwise, why obsess over an expensive purse that they know men aren't going to give a flip about? I agree that a woman can't get mad at a man for looking at her when she's wearing a short skirt and a revealing top, but there is a difference between an appreciative glance and flat-out staring, disrespectful come-ons, etc.
And here is my point, all men don't look at attractiveness at a primary. Also, different guys like different things, and nobody expects you to doll up in a bikini either.
For all I care, were decent clothes and be presentable according to occasion, and that goes for either gender. Are we loafers or what, there are other far more important things for men to care about than relationships.
For those against me, I am not open to opinions.
I agree, and I think that's great. There are a lot of great men out there. I'm married to one. I'm wearing hot pink fleece pajama pants, a navy blue tank top and a messy bun right now, and my hubs still thinks I'm sexy.
I'm not in the school of men vs. women.
The media as a whole, however, is creating an unhealthy expectation for women. At the end of the day, we're people, too. Just as a man doesn't want to be nagged by his wife for wearing his favorite ratty T-shirt and old jeans on Saturdays, most women don't want to be automatically judged for bummin' it in a pair of jeans, a T-shirt and no makeup on her day off. Men are chuckled at or even admired for eating as much as possible at a buffet, while women get judged for going and getting a second plate.
Also, Adi, your view on women has not always been as healthy as it is now. What do you think caused the thoughts that you shared on this forum a year or so ago? Could it have been the media and the way that it exploits women?
These "Carl's Jr." ads for instance, which have been around for a long while, I think are objectifying. It is always depicted that a lone, half-undressed female is seen eating a Burger in a sexual / sensual manner, while in some versions, surrounded by gawking men. They will have women pose with skirts hiked up, legs apart and exposed breasts or in swimsuits, eating an oversized burger with the sauce dripping down upon them everywhere, while they are licking, etc. There was the one with Paris Hilton in a swimsuit, washing a car with suds all over her body, while squirting a hose. Selling burgers?
Then, there are the "Victoria Secret" ads, with women posed in lingerie (I doubt this motivates females to go buy underwear). A few years ago, there existed a magazine / poster ad for "Dolce and Gabbana", that depicts a faux rape scene, while men are standing around, watching.
I'm sorry, but none of this is about "showing pride in one's body". There is nothing wrong with people learning to appreciate the human body overall, but we have been pretty far off the mark in having appropriate examples and of course, having been only "one type", too. These ads are basically porn and shown while kids are in the room, doubtless making a particular impression. There has never been anything equaling men being depicted as such, which is why they are not really complaining. I have a male friend who complained after having seen muscular guys be encouraged to remove their shirts on the Ellen show, but how might men feel if having had this projected on them to the degree it has been for females?
Why do I have to be constantly looking at myself? How do you know what I wear in my own home? As I stated, I find skirts and dresses to be far more comfortable than pants (this is physical comfort we're talking about here and it's frustrating that someone who prefers dresses to pants is often assumed to be lying), so I do in fact wear them even when no one is around. I like to comb my hair and put on make-up even at home because it helps my face feel fresh. When I don't comb my hair it feels greasy, tangled, frizzy and in my way. So I wash it and straighten it because it's easier to handle and doesn't make me feel dirty. The same logic extends to why I wash my face any apply a little concealer, even if no one else sees me.
Stop making generalities about how everyone feels and lives their lives based on your short experiences and the few people in your bubble. SOME people base their self worth and self esteem on others. Some put on a front. Some don't care how they look at all. And some people dress up entirely for themselves and are sick of other people telling them how they must feel about it.
I agree. There are times when I scrub it up in PJs and messy hair all day when I'm at home. There are also times when I go to the bathroom and look at myself in the mirror and don't feel cute, so I put on a full face of makeup. There are times when I'm in a big rush in the morning and put my hair up and put on less makeup, and I feel gross all day. Do you know what I do when I get home? Fix my hair and makeup, even if I'm not planning on going anywhere else for the rest of the day. I felt gross that day, so I fix it as soon as I get the chance.
Do I do it for my husband? Sometimes, yes. A lot of times, no. Sometimes, he'll see me doing my hair or makeup and will know that I'm not planning on going anywhere, and he'll make a joke like, "Where are you going?" or "Who are you trying to impress?" I say that I'm trying to impress him, and that's partly true, but we both know that I'm mostly doing it for myself.
So, no. As much as many men want to believe that it's all for their benefit, it often isn't. Maybe it's for our own benefit. Or, maybe we want to impress one particular man, and not the whole world.
I think it's funny that many men put on their best cologne, wear their best clothing, etc., and go out in public for drinks or whatever. Yet, they have snotty things to say if "fat chicks" or "ugly chicks" come and try to talk to them. Yet, if women are dressed in their best, then they are "asking for" anyone/everyone to hit on them.
These "Carl's Jr." ads for instance, which have been around for a long while, I think are objectifying. It is always depicted that a lone, half-undressed female is seen eating a Burger in a sexual / sensual manner, while in some versions, surrounded by gawking men. They will have women pose with skirts hiked up, legs apart and exposed breasts or in swimsuits, eating an oversized burger with the sauce dripping down upon them everywhere, while they are licking, etc. There was the one with Paris Hilton in a swimsuit, washing a car with suds all over her body, while squirting a hose. Selling burgers?
Then, there are the "Victoria Secret" ads, with women posed in lingerie (I doubt this motivates females to go buy underwear). A few years ago, there existed a magazine / poster ad for "Dolce and Gabbana", that depicts a faux rape scene, while men are standing around, watching.
I'm sorry, but none of this is about "showing pride in one's body". There is nothing wrong with people learning to appreciate the human body overall, but we have been pretty far off the mark in having appropriate examples and of course, having been only "one type", too. These ads are basically porn and shown while kids are in the room, doubtless making a particular impression. There has never been anything equaling men being depicted as such, which is why they are not really complaining. I have a male friend who complained after having seen muscular guys be encouraged to remove their shirts on the Ellen show, but how might men feel if having had this projected on them to the degree it has been for females?
Yeah...no kidding. And, do you think that any of these women actually eat food from Carl's Jr.? They show the skinniest/fittest chicks eating their biggest and fattiest burgers. Yeah, right. It's yet another set-up for women..."Hey guys, look for a super hot chick like this who is so down-to-earth that she'll have a triple bacon topped burger eating competition with you. Our 3,000 calorie burgers are awesome, and the chicks who eat them are hot, but only the hottest women ever are acceptable."
I don't REALLY care that much but I always have the scenario in my mind of a company hiring an advertising agency and all they do is show them photos of hot chicks and everyone thinks they are a genius. LOL. "and here is a hot chick eating a burger, and here is a hot chick spraying perfume, and here is a hot chick drinking a soda...etc".
I could totally be in advertising.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
