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Old 04-05-2015, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,876 posts, read 28,154,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610 View Post
I am not surprised you have an excuse as to why you "can't" do any of the above.
Continue on as you are or make the conscious decision to improve whatever it is you need to improve.

IF you "copy" someone else then you are a shadow of them, you are not you so if you want to be a shadow then copy away and carry on.

PS ~~ Teen movies are not made for those in their 20's, they are made for teens, hence the reason they are referred to as "Teen Movies".
I love a frothy teen movie! Center Stage, Mean Girls, Clueless, Cruel Intentions, Drumline, Can't Buy Me Love and Teen Witch are among my favorites. There are dozens more I can't think of right now. I watch them whenever they are on. They are popcorn movies. They are only problematic if you think real life works like teen movie life. But go ahead, unwind and enjoy them! I am in my 30s.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:18 PM
 
10,400 posts, read 7,478,326 times
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You might study photos of women who have a similar build as you. Find ones that are wearing clothing that appeals to you and looks professional. I'd start at some upscale retail stores and see if you can find similar clothes. I think you should start with second hand because (besides the fact you can find great stuff there) it would give you a chance to try on certain styles and see if you're comfortable with them. Ask sales people and/or strangers. Usually kind people will try to be helpful. Try to find a look you're comfortable with. I made an agreement with myself a long time ago not to spend money on anything unless I look great in it.

For makeup, find an Avon lady. I love Glimmersticks eye liner and it's affordable. Avon ladies are supposed to know how to apply makeup. Or you can go more upscale and do another line of makeup. Be sure you let them know you'd like to learn. But don't overdo the first purchase. Just get one, maybe two basic items to start with. You won't need to look like you walked out of Glamorshots. Less is sometimes more in the professional world.

Keep your hair neat and use good products (spray, gel, color, clips).

Be sure you practice good personal hygiene. Nothing else will count if you don't bathe daily, use deodorant and keep your hair clean.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:27 PM
 
4,279 posts, read 3,291,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
You are equating "mean girls" with having poise, professionalism, and polish. I don't think this is accurate or especially helpful.
Really, though, if it wasn't for the "mean girls," I would probably see femininity as boring and "girly." The idea that knowing how to flow with the situation can give you power and influence over other people is what keeps me wanting to learn more. I remember high school, where I encountered people who seemingly had an endless amount of power over me just because they understood the situation and knew how to communicate a lot better than I did. I also saw this ability reflected in a lot of the strong women on TV. I think it's less about "mean girls," and more about admiring the "big sister" figures in my life and wanting the emulate the traits they embodied so that I can feel more confident teaching and training younger women. I want to be the boss for a change.
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Old 04-06-2015, 01:09 AM
 
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I've had this exact problem, more or less. I had to suddenly start looking professional in order to make good impressions in job interviews and to my students, and bosses and coworkers and strangers, all of which base first impressions heavily off of looks. That's logical.

By the way, none of this is the 'one path.' It's what worked for me, however. I know people who could give off a professional impression with a lot less.

First thing was the impression, so I googled some haircuts that would look good with my ethnicity, face shape, etc, and just showed a picture to a good haircutting place. I youtubed make up tips and just asked around, most people are happy to share make up tips. I bought a lot of makeup to figure out quickly what brands and specifics I should focus on. (It came out to: liquid foundation, powder coverup, highlighter, bronzer, eyeshadow, eyeliner, light lipstick, mascara.) All of that was actually needed just to put together a 'natural' look. I still don't know how to do heavy makeup, but as long as you got something baseline acceptable it hardly matters. Initially a terrible money sink.

Next thing was clothing. Referenced parents, friends, I guess fashion sites if that failed, and pick out two pair of suits, and 'formal clothes' basically something classier than t shirts and jeans. That annoying fabric you can't just wash again and again and the black shiny pants or formal khaki or whatever. Pick out entire outfits, more convenient. Depending on style, everything is expensive, so I guess collect it over a long period of time. Get fancy shoes to wear with fancy dress. Everything should fit.

People do treat you different when you give off a certain air, even if you just washed your hair, tidied up your dress, and change your way of speaking. It's pretty irritating.

Next thing was other impressions. To give off a professional vibe I would think carefully before I spoke, tried to keep a neutral expression on my face, and always was polite and straight to the point. Gave no one anything to complain about unless they were clearly asking for it. I kept my back straight and my knees together, and I researched everything like crazy so I wasn't ever ignorant of current events, manners, culture, movies, slang, history, sports, food, or whatever. Those news things that get emailed to you daily. I phrased my questions sensitively. You know, projecting confidence but not idiocy. But this is whatever you want to aim for, just look at how they act and figure out how to emulate it until you are it. I don't know if you care, but smiling less scares people generally from speaking to you. Smiling too much makes them think you are too innocent or weird. So basically, do whatever you want because people will hate anything.

I had the fortune of having painfully honest parents, who would tell me to practice my smile, or if I looked stupid, or how to act with bosses etc. My mom taught me a runway walk and conversation etiquette, my dad focused on professional manners and proper cuts of suits and ties etc, which I feel like they had to learn from scratch to succeed in their own professions. It was also very useful. Knowing how to do things like repair shoes or destain blouses or general motor skills are a great thing to keep in your pocket and break out at strategic intervals. Also, money and time savers. For example, undenting with a plunger.

And as it turns out, you actually have to practice interviews and smiles into recorders or mirrors, review, and tweak. Then it comes out more naturally and competently. Any public speakers do it constantly, to be under control and aware.

So work on posture, and think of your way of asking a question, your way of reacting to compliments, way of greeting people, way of listening to complaints, your way of being nervous, the way to go out or turn people down. If someone comes up excessively rude, decide at which point you should start reacting. If a kid poops on the floor, what will you do? Everything with consideration. Then integrate it naturally into your behavior. If you do something long enough, it just becomes habit. It gives off the air 'you know what you are doing.' And if some random guy unbidden tries to comment on your makeup or personal effects, just stare at him very flatly til he shuffles off. It's useful to read those 'how to get a girl' books 'the game' lol so you can spot the really suspicious ones. If it's a girl, depends on you. I usually go with friendly mocking. I know a coworker that would literally freeze people out with pure force of professionalism, it was pretty impressive.

Wit? Read a lot of british books, watch second city, joss whedon, I don't know, exposure makes things easier to comprehend.

Mean girl? Sounds terrible. Wouldn't want to meet one or be one. Especially someone trying hard to be one, tbh, it would end in a whole lot of shattered pride. What's the point? Aren't they usually overturned at the end of movies because actively being the twin whammies of petty and a ***** 24-7 work against them? Aren't they usually entitled and arrogant? It's possible to be self aware and admired at the same time. Maybe we are thinking of different mean girls, lol.

Most important thing seems to be your body language and basic face/hair care. Standing straight automatically projects strength. Impeccable manners make that a bit intimidating, which is probably what you're going for. I guess, if you are scared of mockery, you have to learn to turn it back around on people. People who mock are usually very sensitive in their own ways, and hate to be exposed. They also hate to be put as the 'bad guy' to other people.

But you know what, do whatever you want. Try to avoid things that'll come back to bite.

Last edited by charmellia; 04-06-2015 at 01:33 AM..
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Old 04-06-2015, 04:36 AM
 
4,279 posts, read 3,291,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charmellia View Post
Mean girl? Sounds terrible. Wouldn't want to meet one or be one. Especially someone trying hard to be one, tbh, it would end in a whole lot of shattered pride. What's the point? Aren't they usually overturned at the end of movies because actively being the twin whammies of petty and a ***** 24-7 work against them? Aren't they usually entitled and arrogant? It's possible to be self aware and admired at the same time. Maybe we are thinking of different mean girls, lol.

Most important thing seems to be your body language and basic face/hair care. Standing straight automatically projects strength. Impeccable manners make that a bit intimidating, which is probably what you're going for. I guess, if you are scared of mockery, you have to learn to turn it back around on people. People who mock are usually very sensitive in their own ways, and hate to be exposed. They also hate to be put as the 'bad guy' to other people.

But you know what, do whatever you want. Try to avoid things that'll come back to bite.
Well, think about Tina Fey, for instance. She understands body language so well that she can use faults in appearance or manner to turn the world's eyes of scrutiny on an unwary victim. Just look at what she managed to do to Sarah Palin or the multitude of other politicians and celebrities that have been unfortunate enough to end up on the wrong side of the joke. She's a force to be reckoned with, yet she also appears to be a successful businesswoman, loving mother, and wonderfully faulted comedian who is not afraid to make fun of herself and take life as it happens. How does she pull all of this off? She's a master at understanding social cues, comedy, and just *how* to act in every situation, as are most of the women who fall into that "mean girl" category. Any noticeable slip in poise or confidence, and she would be eaten alive, but she somehow avoids those awkward moments every time.
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Old 04-06-2015, 05:00 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,849,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
I want to be a full-fledged lady who looks and acts like she just stepped out of a conservative fashion magazine for women over thirty. I want to look and act the part perfectly, and I really am sort of obsessed with fashion and beauty. I work with teenagers who regard it heavily, and my coworkers always observe a "professional appearance," but to me seem like they went to charm school as girls. They automatically know how others are going to perceive them. I lack this ability; it may be because I'm mildly autistic, or it may be simply because I never learned.

My desires were reignited recently by watching another teen movie where the awkward girl transforms herself into someone else to reach her goal. It's amazing what people can do with makeup and how a person can apparently become someone else if he or she has good communication skills. Besides, I like to dress up. My mother used to encourage it, so it helps me remember her. I just don't have the skills or the time and money to experiment. I do need to start looking and acting like a professional lady, though, not like a kid. I feel like I'm stuck in kid mode. I'm obsessed with some of the things they're obsessed with (but really I'm obsessed with a need for success.) I feel like if I look and act the correct way, I'll be offered a job, because people will see what I can do.

Right now, I'm just not working toward my goals. Maybe this is better suited for the psychology forum. I have a lot of goals that I have not met, and I blame it on not being "woman enough." I like dressing up as a hobby, really, but lately I've been searching for a way to fit into society and using it as an imaginary unattainable solution.

Here are some questions that were on my mind:

Are there any services like charm schools, etiquette schools, or professionalism trainings available at an affordable price? I know of some things in my area, but I don't know of anything that will cater to my needs, really. Since there probably aren't any services like this in my area, how would I go about convincing someone to start something?

I feel like I need to copy female friends who dress and act professional, but I don't know where to find such people. Currently, I have no friends who are teachers or educated professionals. I wish I could find an affordable coach somewhere.
I feel like we have been down this road so many times..... You can't believe what you see in the movies. There IS NO Cinderella tale in real life. Clothing and makeup will not change who you are. Wearing appropriate clothing is important, but it is as easy as buying clothes in whole outfits from the right store (Ann Taylor, for example). If you want to be a successful teacher, then your best bet is to focus on teaching and learning about teaching methods, not trying to copy "ladylike" behaviour that is romanticized from a movie. I will also suggest that elementary would be a better age for you than high school.
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Old 04-06-2015, 05:05 AM
 
3,153 posts, read 2,849,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
Really, though, if it wasn't for the "mean girls," I would probably see femininity as boring and "girly." The idea that knowing how to flow with the situation can give you power and influence over other people is what keeps me wanting to learn more. I remember high school, where I encountered people who seemingly had an endless amount of power over me just because they understood the situation and knew how to communicate a lot better than I did. I also saw this ability reflected in a lot of the strong women on TV. I think it's less about "mean girls," and more about admiring the "big sister" figures in my life and wanting the emulate the traits they embodied so that I can feel more confident teaching and training younger women. I want to be the boss for a change.
You are never going to be a "mean girl." Give up that fantasy. It is impossible. Life is not a movie. If you want to be the boss, then be good at your job and do it really well. Teachers who are respected are teachers who work hard and know what they are doing, not teachers who know how to play mean girls. Avoid the teacher lunch room and stay out of the petty politics if you want to be successful. And teach elementary, not high school, where the students themselves are mean girls.
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Old 04-06-2015, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
6,296 posts, read 10,466,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
My idols are unattainable and include people like Tina Fey, Terry Hatcher, and many other smart sophisticated socially savvy pseudo-sadistic ladies and gentlemen on television. I say they're unattainable, because I'm not a mean person. I'm also not very funny, yet I admire the strength and sophistication of the mean girl. I wish I could be *her* or at least a much more confident and wittier version of me. I've gotten better, but I'm no comic. I wonder when I see people able to take a shot at a stranger and get laughs instead of scowls. I sometimes get scowls and frowns when I try to be nice. I love to play, and I like it when people play with me. My looks, though, might have something to do with this. People, for whatever reason, may respond better to me and give me more of the benefit of the doubt if I look like a strong sophisticated woman.

I also want to have the looks of a strong wise socially competent woman. I want to look like I know how to take care of myself and put others in their place. I want to look like I know about the world and how to operate in it. I'm not there right now. I will admit, though, I have made improvements. I can at least hold my head high when those kids at my job decide to take cheap shots at me. I've even admitted that I like some friendly banter, so maybe I'm improving.
I congratulate you for having the good sense to realize that you haven't had good role models and that you need to work on this area of your personality development. That hasn't dawned on a lot of twenty somethings.

Watching teen age movies is a horrible way to learn how to act. The portrayals are far from how a mature women should comport herself. And don't confuse a sense of humor with a "mean girl" for heaven's sake. A mature person is diplomatic and makes others feel comfortable in their presence. Have you ever read an etiquette book? Emily Post? A book on how to make conversation?

If you develop an assertive mature demeanor, kids won't dare to take cheap shots at you. Go for it.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:26 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
10,863 posts, read 18,892,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
My idols are unattainable and include people like Tina Fey, Terry Hatcher, and many other smart sophisticated socially savvy pseudo-sadistic ladies and gentlemen on television. I say they're unattainable, because I'm not a mean person. I'm also not very funny, yet I admire the strength and sophistication of the mean girl. I wish I could be *her* or at least a much more confident and wittier version of me. I've gotten better, but I'm no comic. I wonder when I see people able to take a shot at a stranger and get laughs instead of scowls. I sometimes get scowls and frowns when I try to be nice. I love to play, and I like it when people play with me. My looks, though, might have something to do with this. People, for whatever reason, may respond better to me and give me more of the benefit of the doubt if I look like a strong sophisticated woman.

I also want to have the looks of a strong wise socially competent woman. I want to look like I know how to take care of myself and put others in their place. I want to look like I know about the world and how to operate in it. I'm not there right now. I will admit, though, I have made improvements. I can at least hold my head high when those kids at my job decide to take cheap shots at me. I've even admitted that I like some friendly banter, so maybe I'm improving.

You need to quit focusing so much on the person you wish you could be and the life you wish you could have, and just learn to make the life you have work well for you. Otherwise, one day you're going to look back and realize that you spent so much time thinking about who you wished you were that you forgot to have an actual, real life.

The kids you teach are not going to respect you just because you look sophisticated. They're going to respect you when you don't care at all what they think of your looks or clothing. When they laugh at your appearance and then you change it to try to be something they will approve of, you're giving them power over you.
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Old 04-06-2015, 09:14 AM
 
4,279 posts, read 3,291,281 times
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Originally Posted by Mnseca View Post
I feel like we have been down this road so many times..... You can't believe what you see in the movies. There IS NO Cinderella tale in real life. Clothing and makeup will not change who you are. Wearing appropriate clothing is important, but it is as easy as buying clothes in whole outfits from the right store (Ann Taylor, for example). If you want to be a successful teacher, then your best bet is to focus on teaching and learning about teaching methods, not trying to copy "ladylike" behaviour that is romanticized from a movie. I will also suggest that elementary would be a better age for you than high school.
Well,

Having Asperger's, I'm not naturally skilled in the personality department. Becoming a slight caricature of a refined and stylish lady might help take away quite a bit of my social awkwardness and uncertainty when presenting lessons and interacting with the kids. Yes, I do need to also work on my lesson plans, and I find that good lesson plans can take away from some of the awkwardness, but I want to be special, admired and treasured and on that fabled list of "favorite" teachers. I want to be one of the teachers who would have blown my mind when I was a teen, and I know there's a way to do it. Plus, I find that having a mental script helps me a bit when interacting with the kids, and if a script helps me, why can't I craft a character for the classroom stage?

Last edited by krmb; 04-06-2015 at 09:25 AM..
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