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Old 11-11-2018, 01:03 AM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
14,510 posts, read 14,536,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
So many excellent comments and analysis that hit the nail on the head.
For a myriad of reasons JCP (and Sears) haven't stayed relevant. Period. Poor management, poor decisions, not reacting to changing tides in a number of areas (shopping and fashion trends being just two). But they're not the only retailers this has happened to (Silo's, Circuit City, Radio Shack, Hechingers, Woolworth's, Montgomery Ward, and on and on)

...

Do we really need especially in a brick and mortar format -- Kohl's and JCP, AND Macys, (in some parts of the country) AND Dillards, AND Roses, AND Walmart, AND Target, -- AND TJMaxx, AND Ross, AND Marshall's, AND Stein Mart -- AND all the niche AND specific stand alone brand stores we have around? (Talbots, Chicos, Torrid, H&M, Zara, Dress Barn, ad infinitum)
Here is the biggest piece of the puzzle: Internet. Stores either have an Internet presence, or they are gone. The competition has gone high tech. The dead stores didn't. Sears died of old age. It's just that Sears is so big the message hasn't traveled all the way to to their boardroom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
Personally, I hate shopping for anything -- especially clothing -- online. But young people don't think twice about it. And with them being so price and trend focused, I don't think they're even thinking about JCP, Sears, and even Macy's. They're PARENTS may take them to Macy's to buy something, get something for an occasion. But I don't think those 30 and younger are even thinking on their own accord to go to Macy's. So Macy's had better get on the stick so it doesn't eventually get into real trouble.
Just this week I'm trying Amazon Wardrobe.

They shipped me 2 pairs of Ugg slippers/moccasins and a Calvin Klein t-shirt. One of the Ugg slippers falls off my feet when I walk, gonna return. The stupid size chart for the t-shirt said that for my size S I should order XL. Well just not! The stupids sent me an XL shirt and it's the same XL size I use for sleeping, I can tell that just by looking at it, don't even need to try it on. I'm considering keeping the other Uggs which look like loafers. (I have 2 identical pairs of Ugg apres ski boots, the 2nd pair for when the first pair wears out. They look like boots and feel like ... heaven!)

When I buy shoes and like them, I often buy a second pair just for reserve. No, not my Lucchese caiman skin boots. (I have bought 4 pairs of dress boots this year, and one pair of riding boots. Yeppers, I ride hosses! )

Amazon Wardrobe has free shipping, you have 7 days to return what you don't want, you are charged only for what you keep. "I don't like it" is sufficient reason to return it, return is free shipping. Return it all if you want and no charge.

That's what I call a good deal. A local store has the same Uggs at the same price, but I don't have to drive over, and I get 5% rewards for using my Amazon Prime Visa card to pay for it—but 5% only if I buy at Amazon.

You can't beat that with a stick. The Amazon store comes to me!

Funny thing, I can return it at Kohl's. For some reason Amazon and Kohl's have some sort of deal. I'll get to see my local Kohl's in less than a week.

Last edited by Lovehound; 11-11-2018 at 01:14 AM..
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Old 11-11-2018, 03:39 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,061 posts, read 28,634,529 times
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Buying anything on Amazon without a specific sku is terrible. There is no way I will ever move my clothing shopping there. Also it wastes a lot of packaging. Especially amazon sincerely items may come from multiple warehouses, your 3 item shipment may come in. 3 boxes. And since they need to be efficient and not stock many boxe sizes it may be a huge one.

Amazon user experience is pretty crappy on the whole.
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Old 11-11-2018, 09:52 AM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
14,510 posts, read 14,536,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Buying anything on Amazon without a specific sku is terrible. There is no way I will ever move my clothing shopping there. Also it wastes a lot of packaging. Especially amazon sincerely items may come from multiple warehouses, your 3 item shipment may come in. 3 boxes. And since they need to be efficient and not stock many boxe sizes it may be a huge one.

Amazon user experience is pretty crappy on the whole.
Ah, but you are just wrong in your assumptions. I order about 100 orders/year so I kind of know them well. I've been a member since 2005, and Prime for several years.

Even though Prime, Prime Wardrobe comes in one box and takes about a week shipping. It has to arrive in one box because your 7 day return period starts the day you receive the shipment. Shipping is free both directions. No charge until you tell them what you are sending back. No charge at all if you didn't like anything. The only chore is re-packing the items. I already have everything but one pair of Uggs repacked.

What do you mean "wastes packaging?" If I keep it I recycle it. If I return it they recycle it. Again, it doesn't work unless everything arrives in one box. That's when your 7 day trial period begins.

Not to be unkind, but I think you are rushing to assumptions that you do not know are true. I'm sure I'll try Amazon Wardrobe again, maybe to get a smaller CK t-shirt, one that fits. There's a 3 item minimum. I saw some briefs I forgot to add so all I need is one more item and I can do a second trial of this new Amazon service. I plan to start a topic when I have enough take.
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:00 AM
 
2,422 posts, read 444,716 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwguydc View Post
Target has cultivated an image that they have fashion, with the limited collections that have been designed by major fashion brands, even if the brands have had second thoughts afterward, such as Missoni. JC Penney, on the other hand, is a clothes retailer, and does not have the image that the company produces or carries fashion, just stodgy generously sized mid-stream brands, some of which are their exclusive domain, such as Liz Claiborne. However, Liz Claiborne is not the same as when its eponymous founder was alive, since her niche came to be a definitive brand within upscale sportswear.

JC Penney and Sears are the old model, stodgy, middle America retailers, not relevant in the fashion capitals of the world. In fact, save for Lands End, Sears has had disasters in clothing ventures, including the Kardashian collaboration. Kohl's used to be the same, with a decidedly middle-of-the-road focus, but shifted with collaborations with designers Vera Wang and Dana Buchman. Ms. Buchman started in womens sportswear and then worked for Liz Claiborne, who helped establish her upscale bridge collections that were featured at Bloomingdale's and other similar retailers. With the changes at Liz Claiborne, the brand was spun off and became a Kohl's asset. Kohl's also has Chaps, which does benefit from being part of the RL Corporation, even if the styles filter from the runway over a couple of seasons. JC Penney focused too much on its own house brands that had no cachet with consumers, whereas the acquisition of Liz Claiborne was a movement in a new direction, but seems not to have continued in the vein of the original label.

JC Penney has tried with collaborations with Project Runway capsule collections lately, but the execution of the garments has been poor. While the original design may have been fashion, by the time it's produced for the JCP palette, it tends to be less true to the original design roots. One of my nieces was obsessed with Kentaro Kameyama on Project Runway, so I bought her several of the pieces produced for the stores, after I found a JC Penney that actually had stock in them. She's a young teen, but true to our side of the family is tall and can wear small women's sizes, and the dresses were cute, but produced for a price. The shirt dress that was made earlier in that season seemed to be a disaster from the reviews, and from the one I saw in store that had loose threads and just wasn't produced well. If JC Penney were bold, they could collaborate with the designer and bring about a capsule collection and move into a more fashionable crowd, but they have to leave the price alone, since the coupons and such makes the MSRP irrelevant as it's really a $29 dress, not $129 marked down. They have tried with the collection available online and in some stores from PR, but then the rest of the store fails to live up to expectations. There's no reason why they could not expand into past PR winners, runners up, etc., in terms of fulfilling the expectation of someone who enjoys the more playful, whimsical, and stylish new fashion produced from the show, such that they could retain that consumer and not lose them because in the next rack one finds the same dusky rose chenille sweater that has been on offer since the dawn of time. At least with a store like Forever 21, the fashion is inexpensive, and known to be fast fashion, which is what draws in customers, even if it's not best for the environment and for wardrobe staple pieces. JC Penney is just boring and doesn't excel in quality or value, and has had limited success in shedding the stodgy image, undermined by the propensity to cost cut the clothing, so the fashion ends up being cheaply executed.
I think you win this thread in terms of best poster.
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
4,849 posts, read 7,400,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
I think you win this thread in terms of best poster.
I don't see what makes Chaps any better than IZOD though. Just being owned by RL doesn't make them any better. IZOD has been a lot more innovative with its collections since 2016. The IZOD of today isn't the same IZOD of the 2000s and early 2010s.
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:29 AM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
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bmwguydc makes quite good posts. So does Pink Jazz. IIRC bmwguydc makes good posts in CD-Investments too!
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:49 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
74,320 posts, read 65,970,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
Personally, I hate shopping for anything -- especially clothing -- online. But young people don't think twice about it. And with them being so price and trend focused, I don't think they're even thinking about JCP, Sears, and even Macy's. They're PARENTS may take them to Macy's to buy something, get something for an occasion. But I don't think those 30 and younger are even thinking on their own accord to go to Macy's. So Macy's had better get on the stick so it doesn't eventually get into real trouble.

I'm fascinated by what I call business biographies, and the behind the scenes machinations of businesses and industries. The strategic successes and failures of businesses. WHY and HOW some survive and others don't -- from computers and cosmetics -- to discount and home improvement -- is really interesting.
Macy's has the market pretty well cornered in NM, which is a bit of a backwater, so there's little, if any, competition. Except for Dillard's, but the fashions there are so stodgy and out of it, and Macy's inventory is so much more attractive and "with it", plus they have better pricing and frequent sales, that Dillard's can't really compete, except among stodgy, out-of-it buyers, lol.

Macy's advantage is the pricing and their frequent sales, I think. And their stores are really attractive, have good displays, and helpful personnel. YMMV, regionally. I'm talking about the SW and the West Coast. Do millennials shop there? Well, as a matter of fact, a few years ago, Macy's in my area made a decision to cut back on styles for Gen-X and older, and went all out for more youthful styles, which to me, looked cheap and too trendy; even some Millennials I know didn't like the change. But that's what they did. Not all their stores did that, though.

So, IDK. They're trying. I don't see anyone else in their niche making an effort. But again, YMMV, I guess.

By all means, share any info you've gleaned from reading biz biographies. Sounds interesting. Dillard's made a big mistake a few years ago, in getting rid of most of their designer-name brands, and substituting their own in-house labels. But maybe that was only a regional decision, not nation-wide?
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
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BTW, Chaps is not a Kohl's exclusive brand, but is also carried by Belk (both of which who also carry IZOD).
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Long Island, New York
389 posts, read 116,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post

Macy's advantage is the pricing and their frequent sales, I think. And their stores are really attractive, have good displays, and helpful personnel. YMMV, regionally. I'm talking about the SW and the West Coast. Do millennials shop there? Well, as a matter of fact, a few years ago, Macy's in my area made a decision to cut back on styles for Gen-X and older, and went all out for more youthful styles, which to me, looked cheap and too trendy; even some Millennials I know didn't like the change. But that's what they did. Not all their stores did that, though.
I tip my hat to Macy's for their Thanksgiving Day parade ....a tradition since 1924...

The big day is almost here

https://www.macys.com/social/parade/

https://www.timeout.com/newyork/thin...ing-day-parade
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:11 AM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
14,510 posts, read 14,536,129 times
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Haha, you mean Macy's Day Parade.

Macy's in L.A. is quite nice, but overpriced. Shop at Macy's, order at Amazon.
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