How do you like Flagstaff? (Phoenix, Douglas: best cities, condos, neighborhood)
Flagstaff-SedonaCoconino County
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The anti business attitude of the city leaders is self serving, these people don't want to have to pay higher wages to their own staff; many of these people have their own businesses and would have to pay higher wages to their employees, if higher paying companies come to town. Who is going to want to install tires at Biff's tire shop for minimum wage, if they can go down to Wal-Mart and make $10?
Charging outrageous impact fees is one effective way of chasing business away ; Some fools ignore the fact that new business already pay high fees for licenses, permits and taxes. The trickle down benefits from new businesses serves everyone in higher wages, services and in the case of retail businesses;sales tax dollars.
The city leaders of Flagstaff are short sited, greedy; doing their citizens a disservice. I lived in several cities operated like Flagstaff; the end result is poverty, drug abuse and crime. It should come as no surprise Flagstaff, has a very high crime rate for a city of its size. Flagstaff, is one of those cities where you could easily become trapped in; with the high cost of living, very low wages and lack of jobs. It takes around $5,000 to relocate properly; in this economy, raising five grand could be a real challenge in a place like Flagstaff. Sure glad they tried to stick me $10 for a relocation package; otherwise I might be stuck there too!
I lived in several cities operated like Flagstaff; the end result is poverty, drug abuse and crime. It should come as no surprise Flagstaff, has a very high crime rate for a city of its size. Flagstaff, is one of those cities where you could easily become trapped in; with the high cost of living, very low wages and lack of jobs. It takes around $5,000 to relocate properly; in this economy, raising five grand could be a real challenge in a place like Flagstaff. Sure glad they tried to stick me $10 for a relocation package; otherwise I might be stuck there too!
Steve
"Stuck" and "trapped" are very accurate descriptions!
The economy (and the housing market!) HOPEFULLY will recover one day, and I'll get the pleasure of seeing Flagstaff in my rear-view mirror one last time.
The economy (and the housing market!) HOPEFULLY will recover one day, and I'll get the pleasure of seeing Flagstaff in my rear-view mirror one last time
I know the feeling being trapped very well, the last time I saw Flagstaff was in my rear-view mirror, I wish you well in your attempt to escape!
.........I lived in several cities operated like Flagstaff; the end result is poverty, drug abuse and crime. It should come as no surprise Flagstaff, has a very high crime rate for a city of its size. Flagstaff, is one of those cities where you could easily become trapped in; with the high cost of living, very low wages and lack of jobs. It takes around $5,000 to relocate properly; in this economy, raising five grand could be a real challenge in a place like Flagstaff. Sure glad they tried to stick me $10 for a relocation package; otherwise I might be stuck there too!Steve
Other cities operated like Flag w/ poverty and crime include Santa Fe, NM; Ashland, OR; and Eugene, Oregon. They all follow the "smart growth" paradigm (Smart Growth Online), despite the objections of Prestigious University Geography Professors like Dr. Wendell Cox (DEMOGRAPHIA: Demographics Development Impacts Market Research & Urban Policy) who have proven that smart growth increases housing prices and rents.
All cities in Arizona must comply with the state's new smart growth act. Nobody in Flagstaff likes this at all since rents are through the roof. The Impact Fees are part of the smart growth paradigm.
Unecessary elements of Smart Growth are present all over Metro Flagstaff, but not in unincorporated areas like Kachina Village and Mountainnaire. Flag's new Boulder Pointe neighborhood doesn't need sidewalks on both sides of the street plus a grass strip.
Forest Meadows Rd. doesn't need a 10' wide curving multi-use sidewalk (smart growth concept) plus a 8' wide grass strip and bike lanes on both sides.
We don't need a Chicos womens clothing store, yet another bar, and 200 loft apartments as part of the downtown "infilling" project (infilling is another smart growth concept). If the Arbors apartments can't be sold or rented on the westside, neither will the 200 loft apartments, especially with fall 2008 Flagstaff home sales at record lows.
Also, realtors complain of problems with noise and crime from student parties with the infilling of townhouses in places like Boulder Point and Rio Homes both here in Flag.....
People moving to ANY city in the US should find out if the City subscribes to smart growth or impact fees. Sure it looks pretty, but it makes the rich richer while creating a permanent underclass. Anyone in this underclass as the OP suggests has to raise a lot of money in order to relocate - they do become TRAPPED ! If they find out about smart growth, it's a lot of research of the City Councils in other cities !
Impact Fees Increase The Price Of A Single Family Home Up To 400% OF THE IMPACT FEE ITSELF! -- http://usj.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/41/7/1303
Boulder, Colorado has smart growth, but there are plenty of jobs nearby in Denver and BCO's unemployment is only around 5% as of last fall 2008. And Denver/Boulder has been ranked the #1 City for Singles several times
As far as I can tell, Albuquerque does not have smart growth, and you can buy a house for less than 200K, ABQ's been ranked high for singles, but they do have impact fees.
Last edited by CCCVDUR; 03-24-2009 at 01:01 AM..
Reason: Additional Link
"Stuck" and "trapped" are very accurate descriptions!
The economy (and the housing market!) HOPEFULLY will recover one day, and I'll get the pleasure of seeing Flagstaff in my rear-view mirror one last time.
BillR1, BobBilly1?, and "KNJO?" and Tom (me) -
Are we all REALLY SURE about this rear view mirror impression?
Will it really be over someday?
Flagstaff Theme Song - "Sad Eyes" -- Leo Sayer
Flagstaff Promotional Flyer On Smart Growth Bike Lanes Lake Mary Road
Here's an example of where your tax dollars are going in terms of Smart Growth.
Personally as a bicyclist, I think bike lanes are a great way to spend tax dollars, but I would question why the shoulder on Lk Mary Road has to be up to 8' wide
I am also not sure why they are putting bike racks along the road. I prefer to park and lock my bikes within my locked private property.
Flagstaff expensive place to do business despite very high educational attainment - Forbes Magazine Rankings - March 2009 Santa Fe, Boulder, also expensive to do business, not surprised. Albuquerque much cheaper.
1. Dont come to FLG without a job
2. Dont come to FLG to "make it" in the world/career
3. Dont come to FLG if you want to get rich
4. Dont come to FLG if you are image/brand centered
5. DO come to FLG if you are community minded
6. DO come to FLG if you are ready to spend a few years getting settled
7. DO come to FLG if you are ready to spend more money than you expected on quality of life
I've seen a lot of posts about the cost of living in Flagstaff, but no numbers (although I admit I didn't read all 11 pages of posts). So here's what you're up against, as of July, 2009. A small 1 bedroom apt. (about 530 sq. feet) runs $700, utilities included (Ponderosa Pines). The average 1 bedroom apt. (about 650 sq. feet) runs $775 (Forest Meadows) up to $925 (Sterling Point and Highland Village). Most are in the $800-$870 range. Some may include "free" cable, or water included, but for the most part, utilities are extra. The average home price is about $300,000, but you can find some homes (small, crappy ones) in the mid-200's, and the nice ones are $500-800,000 and up. The average income for a family of four is about $47,000, but I have seen lower stats. I personally rent an $800/mo apt. that, according to a real estate friend who visited me last year, would be worth about $500-550/mo in her city. In the winter my rent + utilites push $1000 a month. I work at NAU and make about $40,000 a year and as of yet (6 yrs of employment) I have not been able to save up any money. I can save a few hundred, but a car repair, or visiting my family for Christmas will clean me out of months of savings. The only way to get ahead is to cram 2-3 people into a 2 bedroom apt., or 4-6 people into a 4 bedroom house. I'm 41 years old and am stunned that with 2 college degrees and over a decade of experience that I need ROOMMATES to make ends meet here. That's cool if you're 23, but not when you're 40+. My $40k a year is about $10k a year less than the average pay at ASU or UofA for the same job position, not to mention both Tucson and Phoenix are about 15% cheaper to live in than Flagstaff. To make things equal, and to be making the average value for my position, I'd need to be making $55,000 in Flagstaff. And that just ain't going to happen. I'll be leaving town at the end of the next academic year. I refuse to live like this any more. The "poverty" just isn't worth the "view".
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If they find out about smart growth, it's a lot of research of the City Councils in other cities !
