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Old 01-14-2012, 06:58 PM
 
12,017 posts, read 14,220,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RupertrepuR View Post
You're right, it's not the best in the country, but it is better than Florida.

The whole education system is flawed, and there was something in the paper a few months ago saying that they were going to make it harder for children to even graduate from Kindergarten.
$ for $, NY has most expensive system in the country. I would hope it's better than #11 Florida
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
4,972 posts, read 7,158,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiebus View Post
The local news today said Florida fell from 5 to 11th place now. The link below describes why the drop happened.

Florida's national education ranking drops from 5th to 11th place | Ocala.com
Oops. Hopefully everyone recognizes what went wrong-trying to do education on the cheap. One of Education Week's bigger concern is the gap between low income and more affluent students.
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,545,766 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retiredcoach View Post
Your post probably has greater validity and reliability than most when it comes to evaluating school quality. Do you think that most of your fellow Florida public high school graduates would concur with your opinion?

Florida schools are not alone in teaching to the tests. The only difference is that FCAT is called by another name when administered across state boundaries. The politicians that create these tests have only one goal in mind- to show higher numbers in their political arena. It means little to the politicians whether the student is learning, or that the student is challenged to his/her highest potential, but the numbers must be higher. High scores sell houses, and high scores will advance personal political agendas. These tests are the focus of pseudo educational quality polls and are regularly "adjusted" to insure that more test-takers get higher scores. This is a really lousy system, and our younger generation is really being cheated of the highest quality education deserved.
All I have or had heard from my 3 children were complaints about a few certain teachers or subjects they didn't like,
I also heard about it when the FCAT was coming up because they would just let me know they were testing that week but that was all.
It's funny that there could be such differing personal accounts and seems looking how the schools rate according to an educators magazine might be a better indicator of how they are doing.
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,545,766 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Florida is going to administer state tests to PRE-K kids, who don't even HAVE to be in school. Why are they doing this? Simple, so they can grade the TEACHERS! Imagine trying to get a 4 year old to even sit long enough to take some state test?
Testing of Pre-K students is nothing new
Lookee here, even your wonderful NY was doing it as far back as 23 years ago.
State-Funded Pre-Kindergarten: What the Evidence Shows: Full Report
People complain about school performance and then complain about grading teachers performance. Make up your mind. People are graded in many jobs and sometimes factors that are out of their control are included in their grading. Don't like it get another job.
Quote:
a. A recent report of 10 state evaluations shows promising results for state-funded pre-kindergarten.

As of 1998
, 10 states had used quasi-experimental designs to evaluate their pre-kindergarten programs. These designs varied in rigor, but each design compared outcomes for children who attended state-funded pre-kindergarten with one or more comparison groups of children that did not attend the program.(28) Not only did study designs vary, but also programs varied in terms of requirements, eligibility and other characteristics. The 10 states include: Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, New York, South Carolina, Texas, Washington, and the District of Columbia.(29) Most of the evaluations focused on cognition, language and academic achievement, with a few including measures of social, behavioral, and health outcomes
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,545,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams View Post
Oops. Hopefully everyone recognizes what went wrong-trying to do education on the cheap. One of Education Week's bigger concern is the gap between low income and more affluent students.
If you check 2009, 2010 and 2011 you will find the area Florida always measures low in the Quality Counts report is school finance yet they still graded good overall.
Seems Florida is not the only state to cut education funding this year. Many states cut a much bigger chunk.


The gap between low income and more affluent students can not be focused on the financial aspect as Florida did very well with distributing funds evenly between school districts.
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
1,304 posts, read 3,021,385 times
Reputation: 1132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
All I have or had heard from my 3 children were complaints about a few certain teachers or subjects they didn't like,
I also heard about it when the FCAT was coming up because they would just let me know they were testing that week but that was all.
It's funny that there could be such differing personal accounts and seems looking how the schools rate according to an educators magazine might be a better indicator of how they are doing.
Any magazine editor will tell you that unless magazines are sold, the magazine will not exist. These "quality education" lists, no matter how crazily invalid that they are, will draw money to their respective companies.... people just love the rankings. Just put a name like "Education" in the title, and it becomes a pseudo authority, if only by name. Do you doubt what I am saying? Please read the disclaimer from their site. Because it is in writing and/or because it is on the internet does not mean it is true. This is another scam being perpetrated upon those who want to be told that quality education can be delivered to our children without investing money in their futures. It is a shame that too many can be so easily convinced by scammers, politicians, and cheats.... all who could care less about the future of the next generation. Children are our future, and our country's future depends upon them receiving the best education possible.

As for the FCAT's, and tests like them, you are sadly mistaken if you believe that your children are not being "guided to attain an arbitrary number" given by these tests devised by politicians. Educational curriculum is no longer driven by what your children will need to know in the 21st century, but by, getting a manipulated score on a test that they will pass regardless of what they learn....
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,545,766 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retiredcoach View Post
Any magazine editor will tell you that unless magazines are sold, the magazine will not exist. These "quality education" lists, no matter how crazily invalid that they are, will draw money to their respective companies.... people just love the rankings. Just put a name like "Education" in the title, and it becomes a pseudo authority, if only by name. Do you doubt what I am saying? Please read the disclaimer from their site. Because it is in writing and/or because it is on the internet does not mean it is true. This is another scam being perpetrated upon those who want to be told that quality education can be delivered to our children without investing money in their futures. It is a shame that too many can be so easily convinced by scammers, politicians, and cheats.... all who could care less about the future of the next generation. Children are our future, and our country's future depends upon them receiving the best education possible.

As for the FCAT's, and tests like them, you are sadly mistaken if you believe that your children are not being "guided to attain an arbitrary number" given by these tests devised by politicians. Educational curriculum is no longer driven by what your children will need to know in the 21st century, but by, getting a manipulated score on a test that they will pass regardless of what they learn....
I judge my children's education on what I see. Right now I see 2 of 3 in college and the 3rd heading that way. My son made Deans List his first semester and all of them are well on there way.
I saw many of his friends heading to upper tier schools after graduating H.S. last year.
The majority of them were fully Florida educated and took the FCAT year after year. This did not seem to slow their educational attainment.
Our children getting the best education possible is not achieved solely by paying teachers more or getting rid of a test that some don't like.
As far as Education Weeks ranking, I will take it over a Forbes or other ranking that relies even more heavily on the financial aspect. More money does not necessarily mean better schools.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
1,304 posts, read 3,021,385 times
Reputation: 1132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
I judge my children's education on what I see. Right now I see 2 of 3 in college and the 3rd heading that way. My son made Deans List his first semester and all of them are well on there way.
I saw many of his friends heading to upper tier schools after graduating H.S. last year.
The majority of them were fully Florida educated and took the FCAT year after year. This did not seem to slow their educational attainment.
Our children getting the best education possible is not achieved solely by paying teachers more or getting rid of a test that some don't like.
As far as Education Weeks ranking, I will take it over a Forbes or other ranking that relies even more heavily on the financial aspect. More money does not necessarily mean better schools.
Don't kid yourself.... Education Week is heavily endowed by corporate sponsorship, and this is readily available on their website. Education Week is a for-profit making venture staffed by writers (some free lance) who take modest amount of information and draw usually "overreaching" conclusions. This is not a journal based upon educational research done by college professors. It is a magazine sold to make a profit, and the "articles" are written, for the most part, by writers, not educational researchers.

It is great, from a personal perspective, that your own children seem to be on their ways to receiving college educations. Hopefully, Florida schools have not only prepared them for this initial journey, but for the complex futures that their entire generation will face. Good luck!
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:42 PM
 
12,017 posts, read 14,220,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
More money does not necessarily mean better schools.
Exactly
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,545,766 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retiredcoach View Post
Don't kid yourself.... Education Week is heavily endowed by corporate sponsorship, and this is readily available on their website. Education Week is a for-profit making venture staffed by writers (some free lance) who take modest amount of information and draw usually "overreaching" conclusions. This is not a journal based upon educational research done by college professors. It is a magazine sold to make a profit, and the "articles" are written, for the most part, by writers, not educational researchers.

It is great, from a personal perspective, that your own children seem to be on their ways to receiving college educations. Hopefully, Florida schools have not only prepared them for this initial journey, but for the complex futures that their entire generation will face. Good luck!
Yes, they are heavily endowed by some such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, The Carnegie Corporation, The GE Foundation, The Joyce Foundation and others.
Where do you see influence coming from to distort their report? Bill Gates? GE?
How would it benefit Gates or GE?
Where would the push to get Florida up the list come from?

For profit or not for profit really does not matter much since if you have big time donations coming in from a few sources those sources can influence a non-profit just as easily as a for profit venture.

Editorial Projects in Education who is the publisher of Education Week is a non-profit by the way.

This is a report published yearly by a non-profit that focuses on improving education in the U.S., they may advocate for certain positions that you don't agree with but being a journalist does not mean one does not have a grasp of the content.

As far as your claim that they take a "modest amount of information and draw usually "overreaching" conclusions", here are the sources and data they use to come up with the report.

Family Income, Parent Education, Parental Employment, Linguistic Integration, Preschool Enrollment, Kindergarten Enrollment, Elementary Reading Achievement, Middle School Mathematics Achievement, Young-Adult Education, Adult Educational Attainment, Annual Income, Steady Employment, NAEP Mathematics 2011 (4th and 8th grades), NAEP Reading 2011 (4th and 8th grades), NAEP Mathematics Change 2003-2011 (4th and 8th grades), NAEP Reading Change 2003-2011 (4th and 8th grades), Poverty Gap (4th grade reading and 8th grade math), Poverty-Gap Change 2003-2011 (4th grade reading and 8th grade math), NAEP Mathematics 2011 Percent "Advanced" (8th grade), NAEP Mathematics Percent "Advanced" Change 2003-2011 (8th grade), High School Graduation Rate, Change in Graduation Rate, High AP Test Scores, Change in High AP Scores, Course- or Grade-Specific Standards, Supplementary Resources, Types of Test Items, Assessments Aligned to Standards, Vertically Equated Assessments, Benchmark Assessments, School Ratings, Statewide Student-Identification System, Rewards for High-Performing or Improving Schools, Assistance to Low-Performing Schools, Sanctions for Low-Performing Schools, Coursework Requirements for Licensure, Licensure Assessments, Clinical Experiences for License, Discouraging Out-of-Field Teaching, Evaluation of Teacher Performance, Accountability for Effectiveness of Teacher Education Programs, Data Systems to Monitor Quality, Alternative-Route Program, License Reciprocity or Portability, Pension Portability, Teacher-Pay Parity, Reporting Teacher Salaries , Pay for Performance , Differentiated Teacher Roles, Incentives for Teacher Leaders , NBPTS Incentives, Incentives for Targeted Assignments, Targeted NBPTS-Certified Teachers, Targeted Principal Assignments, Professional Development , School Leadership, Class-Size Initiatives, Student-Teacher Ratio, School Facilities, School Climate and Working Conditions, Wealth-Neutrality Score, McLoone Index, Coefficient of Variation , Restricted Range, Adjusted Per-Pupil Expenditures, Percent of Students in Districts With PPE at or Above U.S. Average, Spending Index, Percent of Total Taxable Resources Spent on Education

Hardly just a modest amount of information. They send the survey out to the state education boards who fill out the requested information, the information must have documentation to be verified or it is not accepted. It is all then compiled into the report.

This is a much better indicator of how the education system is doing than many other reports that rely almost solely on per pupil spending or teacher salaries.
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