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Old 01-16-2012, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
1,119 posts, read 1,601,771 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
Yes, they are heavily endowed by some such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, The Carnegie Corporation, The GE Foundation, The Joyce Foundation and others.
Where do you see influence coming from to distort their report? Bill Gates? GE?
How would it benefit Gates or GE?
Where would the push to get Florida up the list come from?

For profit or not for profit really does not matter much since if you have big time donations coming in from a few sources those sources can influence a non-profit just as easily as a for profit venture.

Editorial Projects in Education who is the publisher of Education Week is a non-profit by the way.

This is a report published yearly by a non-profit that focuses on improving education in the U.S., they may advocate for certain positions that you don't agree with but being a journalist does not mean one does not have a grasp of the content.

As far as your claim that they take a "modest amount of information and draw usually "overreaching" conclusions", here are the sources and data they use to come up with the report.

Family Income, Parent Education, Parental Employment, Linguistic Integration, Preschool Enrollment, Kindergarten Enrollment, Elementary Reading Achievement, Middle School Mathematics Achievement, Young-Adult Education, Adult Educational Attainment, Annual Income, Steady Employment, NAEP Mathematics 2011 (4th and 8th grades), NAEP Reading 2011 (4th and 8th grades), NAEP Mathematics Change 2003-2011 (4th and 8th grades), NAEP Reading Change 2003-2011 (4th and 8th grades), Poverty Gap (4th grade reading and 8th grade math), Poverty-Gap Change 2003-2011 (4th grade reading and 8th grade math), NAEP Mathematics 2011 Percent "Advanced" (8th grade), NAEP Mathematics Percent "Advanced" Change 2003-2011 (8th grade), High School Graduation Rate, Change in Graduation Rate, High AP Test Scores, Change in High AP Scores, Course- or Grade-Specific Standards, Supplementary Resources, Types of Test Items, Assessments Aligned to Standards, Vertically Equated Assessments, Benchmark Assessments, School Ratings, Statewide Student-Identification System, Rewards for High-Performing or Improving Schools, Assistance to Low-Performing Schools, Sanctions for Low-Performing Schools, Coursework Requirements for Licensure, Licensure Assessments, Clinical Experiences for License, Discouraging Out-of-Field Teaching, Evaluation of Teacher Performance, Accountability for Effectiveness of Teacher Education Programs, Data Systems to Monitor Quality, Alternative-Route Program, License Reciprocity or Portability, Pension Portability, Teacher-Pay Parity, Reporting Teacher Salaries , Pay for Performance , Differentiated Teacher Roles, Incentives for Teacher Leaders , NBPTS Incentives, Incentives for Targeted Assignments, Targeted NBPTS-Certified Teachers, Targeted Principal Assignments, Professional Development , School Leadership, Class-Size Initiatives, Student-Teacher Ratio, School Facilities, School Climate and Working Conditions, Wealth-Neutrality Score, McLoone Index, Coefficient of Variation , Restricted Range, Adjusted Per-Pupil Expenditures, Percent of Students in Districts With PPE at or Above U.S. Average, Spending Index, Percent of Total Taxable Resources Spent on Education

Hardly just a modest amount of information. They send the survey out to the state education boards who fill out the requested information, the information must have documentation to be verified or it is not accepted. It is all then compiled into the report.

This is a much better indicator of how the education system is doing than many other reports that rely almost solely on per pupil spending or teacher salaries.
Sounds like you are still trying to sell Florida real estate again, Mike, on the misguided opinion that "real estate is the investment of a lifetime". Do you remember? I do not blame you for now denying that you were formerly the Florida realtor attempting to make money on the basis of the misinformation that you believed to be true. You sold houses and dreams to those who did not know better, and profited by their mistakes. Unfortunately, you are attempting to sell a "bill of goods" to the unsuspecting, when it comes to the education of our children. Like selling the overpriced condo on the basis of your perceived appreciation potential, you are attempting to sell quality education on the value of the statistics that are constantly manipulated to suit the political climate. For example, do you really believe that only about 10% of Florida is unemployed, or are these statistics being "adjusted" to allay fears? Like the unemployment figures, the FCAT, and tests like them, are now becoming the lone means to measure our children's education (the NAEP that you list in your post is more-or-less the overseer) and are constantly being altered/manipulated to attain higher numbers, not to test student achievement. This is why the FCAT, and tests like them. will never be standardized according to reliability and validity based upon national norms.

Ninety-nine percent of what you posted above is garbage used to "sell" an injustice to our kids and call it educational data. You do know, that NAEP is another name for "let's compare our FCAT's to other state's tests". Do you really believe that corporations (such as GE), or private foundations funded by billionaires (such as Bill Gates) do not have their own agendas? If not, based upon the governmental data, I have a Florida home that was purchased in 2005 that I know will offer you a nice return on your investment dollar, an almost guaranteed 100 percent appreciation in 6 years. Oh wait.....
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,490 posts, read 10,448,278 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retiredcoach View Post
Sounds like you are still trying to sell Florida real estate again, Mike, on the misguided opinion that "real estate is the investment of a lifetime". Do you remember? I do not blame you for now denying that you were formerly the Florida realtor attempting to make money on the basis of the misinformation that you believed to be true. You sold houses and dreams to those who did not know better, and profited by their mistakes. Unfortunately, you are attempting to sell a "bill of goods" to the unsuspecting, when it comes to the education of our children. Like selling the overpriced condo on the basis of your perceived appreciation potential, you are attempting to sell quality education on the value of the statistics that are constantly manipulated to suit the political climate. For example, do you really believe that only about 10% of Florida is unemployed, or are these statistics being "adjusted" to allay fears? Like the unemployment figures, the FCAT, and tests like them, are now becoming the lone means to measure our children's education (the NAEP that you list in your post is more-or-less the overseer) and are constantly being altered/manipulated to attain higher numbers, not to test student achievement. This is why the FCAT, and tests like them. will never be standardized according to reliability and validity based upon national norms.

Ninety-nine percent of what you posted above is garbage used to "sell" an injustice to our kids and call it educational data. You do know, that NAEP is another name for "let's compare our FCAT's to other state's tests". Do you really believe that corporations (such as GE), or private foundations funded by billionaires (such as Bill Gates) do not have their own agendas? If not, based upon the governmental data, I have a Florida home that was purchased in 2005 that I know will offer you a nice return on your investment dollar, an almost guaranteed 100 percent appreciation in 6 years. Oh wait....think
First off, where did I ever deny that I was a real estate agent. I have never denied it and all my posts are still linked to this account.

Did you really think a swing and a miss at trying to discredit me would bolster your argument.

You were wrong about it being a for profit company, you were wrong about Quality Counts being heavily endowed by corporate sponsorship and you were wrong when you stated, "they take a modest amount of information and draw usually "overreaching" conclusions", yet you say that 99% of what I posted is garbage?

You say the FCAT is being used as a lone means to measure education yet we were discussing Quality Counts and I listed a multitude of different factors that are taken in to account for the rankings. Did you miss it?
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
1,119 posts, read 1,601,771 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
First off, where did I ever deny that I was a real estate agent. I have never denied it and all my posts are still linked to this account.

Did you really think a swing and a miss at trying to discredit me would bolster your argument.

You were wrong about it being a for profit company, you were wrong about Quality Counts being heavily endowed by corporate sponsorship and you were wrong when you stated, "they take a modest amount of information and draw usually "overreaching" conclusions", yet you say that 99% of what I posted is garbage?

You say the FCAT is being used as a lone means to measure education yet we were discussing Quality Counts and I listed a multitude of different factors that are taken in to account for the rankings. Did you miss it?
Like the WWF that used to vehemently deny that their wrestling was fake (eventually admitting the truth and calling itself entertainment), Education Week is a periodical that should be earmarked with the same. Show me any one of your posted factors that is unilaterally measurable, objective, reliable, valid and based upon testing national norms.... none are there. Your Editorial Projects in Education is classified a nonprofit organization in name only. Its book publishing segment alone has an income that projects up to 25 million dollars per year, and its employees each average approximately 75000 dollars annually. This does not include the "endowment dollars" that are derived from the corporations. Like People Magazine writers that utilize strongly opinionated "criteria" upon deciding their 100 most beautiful people, so goes Education Week when defining school quality. This is not about the quality of education that is being provided to our children, but is another entertainment venue for the uninformed.

We are forcing our kids to pay for our past/present/future debts and entitlements. We are providing them with significantly fewer real job opportunities, and we are utilizing "pretend research" to deny them the quality education that they/we will need in our country's future. We are defining their educations with a "smoke and mirrors" approach that provides promises of a future with no real substance to back them. I wonder if you would be so steadfast in your defense of your personal education philosophies if your own son(s)/daughter(s) were immersed in the current job sector. Like a real estate bubble that has burst, so goes the value of an education when there are no liveable wage jobs available.

Nonprofit organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Editorial Projects In Education, Bethesda, MD | Company Info | Compare to Peers.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:45 PM
 
1,139 posts, read 486,307 times
Reputation: 1533
Default My poor children

When I was in my 20s over 40 years ago, I did consider not having children at all because I was worried about what the future of the USA and their future would be. Today, I question even more what the future will hold for my future grandchildren. My adult children and I discuss this all the time. My 20 and 30 something children's future is very much in question. What are the prospects for their future children's future?

No matter what state you are in, it doesn't look good. I am old enough to remember my own parents lament about this, but that was nothing as it is today, or potentialy will be in the future.

Sad, very, very sad. Will there even be an America as we knew it 50 years from now?
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:49 PM
 
1 posts, read 291 times
Reputation: 10
i have a 4 year old and need to get here in to a program does anyone know where or who i can talk to about the magnet program in st augustine fl
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,490 posts, read 10,448,278 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retiredcoach View Post
Like the WWF that used to vehemently deny that their wrestling was fake (eventually admitting the truth and calling itself entertainment), Education Week is a periodical that should be earmarked with the same. Show me any one of your posted factors that is unilaterally measurable, objective, reliable, valid and based upon testing national norms.... none are there. Your Editorial Projects in Education is classified a nonprofit organization in name only. Its book publishing segment alone has an income that projects up to 25 million dollars per year, and its employees each average approximately 75000 dollars annually. This does not include the "endowment dollars" that are derived from the corporations. Like People Magazine writers that utilize strongly opinionated "criteria" upon deciding their 100 most beautiful people, so goes Education Week when defining school quality. This is not about the quality of education that is being provided to our children, but is another entertainment venue for the uninformed.

We are forcing our kids to pay for our past/present/future debts and entitlements. We are providing them with significantly fewer real job opportunities, and we are utilizing "pretend research" to deny them the quality education that they/we will need in our country's future. We are defining their educations with a "smoke and mirrors" approach that provides promises of a future with no real substance to back them. I wonder if you would be so steadfast in your defense of your personal education philosophies if your own son(s)/daughter(s) were immersed in the current job sector. Like a real estate bubble that has burst, so goes the value of an education when there are no liveable wage jobs available.

Nonprofit organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Editorial Projects In Education, Bethesda, MD | Company Info | Compare to Peers.
Was that a, "I have no reply so I'll just throw some **** against the wall" response?
Now you compare it to the WWF?
Liveable wage jobs now factors into the rankings?
Yet you mention how much the average wage of the employees of the company?
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:27 PM
 
1,139 posts, read 486,307 times
Reputation: 1533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
Testing of Pre-K students is nothing new
Lookee here, even your wonderful NY was doing it as far back as 23 years ago.
State-Funded Pre-Kindergarten: What the Evidence Shows: Full Report
People complain about school performance and then complain about grading teachers performance. Make up your mind. People are graded in many jobs and sometimes factors that are out of their control are included in their grading. Don't like it get another job.
My younger daughter was born in 1984 and started Pre-K at the age of 3 in 1987, which she was in for 2 years. She started Kinder at the age of 5 in 1990. I was required, by law, to observe for so many hours a month in class for Pre-K. She was NOT tested by NY STATE during that time. Yes, my dear, this was PUBLIC SCHOOL on Long Island, New York. I also WORKED in New York Public Schools just 7 years ago. They DID NOT test the Pre-K or Kinder kids BY THE STATE. The LOCAL schools gave tests to these kids, but they weren't STATE tests. NCLB doesn't require standarized testing of the PRIMARY grades. Try again.

Oh, BTW, I have WORKED in YOUR precious Florida schools, so I am qualified to make a comparison between the two.

You don't have children who went through the NYS sytems, OR WORKED in the Public Schools in NYS.
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:47 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,490 posts, read 10,448,278 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
My younger daughter was born in 1984 and started Pre-K at the age of 3 in 1987, which she was in for 2 years. She started Kinder at the age of 5 in 1990. I was required, by law, to observe for so many hours a month in class for Pre-K. She was NOT tested by NY STATE during that time. Yes, my dear, this was PUBLIC SCHOOL on Long Island, New York. I also WORKED in New York Public Schools just 7 years ago. They DID NOT test the Pre-K or Kinder kids BY THE STATE. The LOCAL schools gave tests to these kids, but they weren't STATE tests. NCLB doesn't require standarized testing of the PRIMARY grades. Try again.

Oh, BTW, I have WORKED in YOUR precious Florida schools, so I am qualified to make a comparison between the two.

You don't have children who went through the NYS sytems, OR WORKED in the Public Schools in NYS.
I posted a link to a report by The U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, you come back with a story.
Cognitive and language assessments were done, maybe you missed that day. They then did the same assessments at the end of kindergarten to find those that attended pre-k scored higher than those students that didn't.

I have family and friends that work or worked in NYC public schools, I attended NYC public schools. I have children that attended Florida public schools. I am just as qualified to make a comparison, except my comparisons and posts include links to material that backs up what I am saying rather than your rambling of sitting in on a few hours of your daughters preschool 25 years ago.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:39 AM
 
4,675 posts, read 3,822,083 times
Reputation: 1678
It's funny to see all the northeasterners out in full force defending their high-priced school systems
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:04 PM
 
1,139 posts, read 486,307 times
Reputation: 1533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1306 View Post
I posted a link to a report by The U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, you come back with a story.
Cognitive and language assessments were done, maybe you missed that day. They then did the same assessments at the end of kindergarten to find those that attended pre-k scored higher than those students that didn't.

I have family and friends that work or worked in NYC public schools, I attended NYC public schools. I have children that attended Florida public schools. I am just as qualified to make a comparison, except my comparisons and posts include links to material that backs up what I am saying rather than your rambling of sitting in on a few hours of your daughters preschool 25 years ago.
You didn't, or had children, who attened NY public in the time period you stated. I did, and worked in both your precious Florida schools, and NY. Sorry, guy, I have more firsthand experience in BOTH than you.
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