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Old 05-22-2015, 02:21 AM
 
8 posts, read 55,207 times
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Originally Posted by StarfishKey View Post
Obviously, you can do what you want. But I URGE you not to make this move before your son has graduated. Key West is an absolutely terrible environment for someone underage. It is meant as an adult getaway, and your son will be surrounded by adults who are engaged in irresponsible abuse of alcohol, drugs, and sex. The island is highly isolated, and full of a much higher percentage of people who have mental illness or personal problems than most places, as it is seen as an "escape" location. There are not as many kids there, so your son will be very limited socially. Local kids in the Keys have social issues aside from high drug and alcohol use, including a heavy bent on who was born a Conch and who is an outsider, who has money and who does not (it is a resort island after all, so this is bound to exacerbate economic and also racial tensions), and local kids are also used to the idea of having children at a young age out of school and not really being very academically or professionally ambitious - they are used to the status quo of previous generations. If you want him to go to college, there is not much in Key West to encourage him to strive for that kind of life.

Key West is fine, for what it is. But it is absolutely the least family-friendly place in the Keys, and overall the Keys are not terribly family-friendly to begin with for people who don't have a lot of money. Any other island other than Key West and Stock Island would be a better choice for your family. Stock Island is where most people end up living, because so few can afford Key West, and it is rampant with drugs, drunken violence, and crime.

The vast majority of people who move here find that they cannot get a place because they do not have sufficient money or local references to secure an apartment (and there are very few legal apartments to rent - far fewer than there are people who want them), and then they end up crashing on dangerous people's couches or otherwise begging for housing because they can't get sufficient local employment to afford the cost of living here. I see the stories posted every week on local forums, on craigslist, and just from knowing people here... it is startlingly common. Unless you already have a job lined up, how do you plan to support your son on $10/hr at 3 different part-time jobs totally only 34hrs/wk with no benefits, with a moldy closet single bedroom rental costing $1100/mo? Do you realize that Monroe County has the most expensive govt. marketplace health insurance in all of Florida, costing a minimum of $370/mo for an absolutely bottom of the barrel cover-virtually-nothing plan? And that if you don't buy that insurance, you get a very heavy tax fine every year? Unless you are independently wealthy, or have a job lined up with the military or a friend you have here, you are not going to be able to afford it, and your son is going to struggle greatly.

The Keys are great, but only for people who have done years of research and have large savings or other guaranteed funds to be able to make it. Kids deserve better than to be moved here where they know no one and will be treated like an outcast at school, where there is nothing to do among the teenage age group to be cool but drink and get in trouble (especially if you don't have the money to own a boat, and dive or fishing equipment, plus a house with a canal or marina rental for water access), just a few years before graduation.

It would be so much better, if you must move at all, to move to a place that has a lot of families and diverse kids for him to get to know, a lot of different kinds of things to do, a place that is not totally isolated and prone to frequent seasonal flooding, a place where all the typical teenage jobs are not already taken up by desperate alcoholic adults scraping by to make rent for one more month, a place that is more academically minded and has a lot of adults for him to look up to rather than swarms of people stumbling out of bars and speeding recklessly past on motorcycles with no helmet, shirts, or shoes...

That kind of place can be exciting and fun for an adult who is old enough to drink, and to know right from wrong (in theory). But it is not a place that nearly any adult makes it in for long. Local life is totally different from vacation life. Very few people make it past living here a year or two before they are forced to move out, broke, and with more problems than they came with.

If you decide to move to the Keys despite all of these truths I am telling you, please move to ANY Key besides KW or Stock Island. Big Pine, Marathon, and Key Largo all have somewhat large populations and more family-friendly environments, plus more affordable (MORE, not actually "affordable") housing. It is very unlikely that ANY of the Keys would make you as happy as a seaside town anywhere up and down the East or West coast of Florida's mainland - and virtually any of those other towns would have more resources, SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper shopping with far more options, way better produce (the Keys cannot easily grow almost any local fruits and vegetables because of the high PH coral soil), and would be 20 times cheaper.

Miami's environment and public schools are by and large very dangerous, and the cost of living there is also very expensive compared to typical pay, so I wouldn't recommend that either. Anywhere outside of SFL is generally going to be a better choice, unless you happen to have a ton of savings.

Clearly I am not knocking the Keys, as I myself chose to live here. But I don't think I will choose to have children here in the schools past a young age. Deliberately moving a teenage kid to a party town where they know no one is a recipe for disaster. Very very few adults even actually like the daily, isolated life that the real Keys offer. It is mostly working 3 crummy jobs round the clock - especially on weekends and holidays because you're serving a tourist economy, almost never getting to see the water, and dealing with small town life and the problems that come with a lot of alcohol and drug abuse. Sure, it's beautiful. But if you can't afford it, it's not very much fun, and I have seen the environment here tear many families apart due to struggles with poverty and excessive alcohol.

Please rethink this plan. If you do come, it would be so much nicer for your graduated son to visit you in the Keys from college, and for you not to have to worry about how much your great struggle in trying to find steady employment and housing is going to negatively affect him and his ability to graduate high school.
Your advice certainly has merit! But my son and I are survivors. I expect his biggest academic motivation will be me. And since he's been exposed to the haves and have nots, he knows there's little incentive in “slacking”. We currently live in Indianapolis, with one of the highest murder rates in the nation, top ten percent. And my neighborhood is “transitioning” via gentrification. (But he doesn't attend the public high school.) I can't imagine KW crime rates competing with that. I don't seek out trouble of any kind, learning to function and survive in any environment is a skill I picked up years ago.
Prior to being here, my son was raised in a small college town and attended a private school. It had a heavy inescapable party atmosphere, rampant with alcohol and drug use. Therefore, KW will likely seem blasé in many regards. He's well rounded and really not infatuated with that lifestyle the way many teens are who've never been exposed to it. And yes he will finish high school and attend college.
And yes, I will secure employment prior to moving, and an apartment. I may not live in KW directly, but will investigate all the options in the Keys before packing up the car.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:24 AM
 
8 posts, read 55,207 times
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Originally Posted by bigh110 View Post
Just do it!! by sound of it you already know you and your son will love it. YOLO!! there is so much to see do and experience in the keys that you will always find an adventure. as long as you are a law abiding responsible adult and show up for work you won't have any problems. I would recommend you find or line up a job before you got to the keys. I would avoid living in key west and stock island because they are the two islands where a lot of the full time population lives hence worse crime areas in my opinion. i would go try ramrod, sugarloaf, marathon or big pine. you can take a bus from marathon to key west (or any place along the way) for 2 bucks each way and it runs till at least 11pm. I would recommend having some savings and securing an apartment/rental before moving to the keys or things could go bad real quick. perhaps a visit again to see the other islands before making your decision.
will do, thank you!
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Old 05-22-2015, 08:24 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,875,800 times
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Originally Posted by madison001 View Post
Your advice certainly has merit! But my son and I are survivors. I expect his biggest academic motivation will be me. And since he's been exposed to the haves and have nots, he knows there's little incentive in “slacking”. We currently live in Indianapolis, with one of the highest murder rates in the nation, top ten percent. And my neighborhood is “transitioning” via gentrification. (But he doesn't attend the public high school.) I can't imagine KW crime rates competing with that. I don't seek out trouble of any kind, learning to function and survive in any environment is a skill I picked up years ago.
Prior to being here, my son was raised in a small college town and attended a private school. It had a heavy inescapable party atmosphere, rampant with alcohol and drug use. Therefore, KW will likely seem blasé in many regards. He's well rounded and really not infatuated with that lifestyle the way many teens are who've never been exposed to it. And yes he will finish high school and attend college.
And yes, I will secure employment prior to moving, and an apartment. I may not live in KW directly, but will investigate all the options in the Keys before packing up the car.
Glad you're considering it carefully. The small town, highly isolated atmosphere may still pose problems, but that will be up to you to handle. It would sound like KW is a great deal more expensive, and more limited in available housing, than the places you are used to. So I can tell you, getting a job and a place, and finding a way to continuously afford, is going to be really really difficult. And I really really don't recommend you live on Stock Island as an affordable alternative, because it is full of petty drug-related crimes and nothing cultural to do - if you look at the police blotter for Monroe County, the vast majority of arrests are people who live on Stock Island. But if you're really determined, you will find a way to figure it out.

Please also consider that Key West is mostly below-flood, and a long drive from the mainland in the case of a hurricane. Evacuations are something you will have to plan and budget for. We are long overdue statistically for a storm here, and Key West floods even with normal rainy season storms, so a real one can be really scary.

It's going to be a pretty much opposite world from Indiana, which can be exciting, but can also be too much to take, especially for a teenager. And kids who have towed the line for a long time, sometimes get upset or have hormonal changes and start acting out when they never did before, so it's important to be prepared that a perfect kid is not always perfect forever, especially when dealing with a ton of stress.

If you want to come, you'll come, but at least you will know what you're up against so you can prepare. Very few people make it in Key West, and the vast majority move back out after less than a year or two, broke and feeling very frustrated. Even locals here can't get housing or jobs, and it's a very heavily local-preferred kind of place, so it's not easy to make it work for outsiders. Probably 5% actually do well and stay... but somebody has to be that 5%, so if you're coming with SKILLS and working harder than everybody else, and are a good neighbor, you might get opportunities that other people don't get.
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Old 05-22-2015, 11:32 PM
 
8 posts, read 55,207 times
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Originally Posted by StarfishKey View Post
Glad you're considering it carefully. The small town, highly isolated atmosphere may still pose problems, but that will be up to you to handle. It would sound like KW is a great deal more expensive, and more limited in available housing, than the places you are used to. So I can tell you, getting a job and a place, and finding a way to continuously afford, is going to be really really difficult. And I really really don't recommend you live on Stock Island as an affordable alternative, because it is full of petty drug-related crimes and nothing cultural to do - if you look at the police blotter for Monroe County, the vast majority of arrests are people who live on Stock Island. But if you're really determined, you will find a way to figure it out.

Please also consider that Key West is mostly below-flood, and a long drive from the mainland in the case of a hurricane. Evacuations are something you will have to plan and budget for. We are long overdue statistically for a storm here, and Key West floods even with normal rainy season storms, so a real one can be really scary.

It's going to be a pretty much opposite world from Indiana, which can be exciting, but can also be too much to take, especially for a teenager. And kids who have towed the line for a long time, sometimes get upset or have hormonal changes and start acting out when they never did before, so it's important to be prepared that a perfect kid is not always perfect forever, especially when dealing with a ton of stress.

If you want to come, you'll come, but at least you will know what you're up against so you can prepare. Very few people make it in Key West, and the vast majority move back out after less than a year or two, broke and feeling very frustrated. Even locals here can't get housing or jobs, and it's a very heavily local-preferred kind of place, so it's not easy to make it work for outsiders. Probably 5% actually do well and stay... but somebody has to be that 5%, so if you're coming with SKILLS and working harder than everybody else, and are a good neighbor, you might get opportunities that other people don't get.
I really do thank you both for your extensive concerns to my well being and the well being of my teenager. It is honorable especially the flooding reality, which i find far more concerning than the drunk/drug disorderly conduct part. It is a bit over the top that you would assume my kid will become a high school drop-out/junkie just by being exposed to island culture. But again, I thank you for your input. I've heard that some key west locals go out of their way to discourage newcomers, maybe this is it. I have no intention of parading down Duval street in a caddie blaring rap music. But I suspect that is the least offenses the street has seen. And thus I assure you, when we do arrive and plant ourselves in KW, you won't even know we're there.
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Old 05-23-2015, 07:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by madison001 View Post
I really do thank you both for your extensive concerns to my well being and the well being of my teenager. It is honorable especially the flooding reality, which i find far more concerning than the drunk/drug disorderly conduct part. It is a bit over the top that you would assume my kid will become a high school drop-out/junkie just by being exposed to island culture. But again, I thank you for your input. I've heard that some key west locals go out of their way to discourage newcomers, maybe this is it. I have no intention of parading down Duval street in a caddie blaring rap music. But I suspect that is the least offenses the street has seen. And thus I assure you, when we do arrive and plant ourselves in KW, you won't even know we're there.

You have misunderstood me. I like rap music, I would be happy if you played some. I don't live in KW proper, but I do live in the Keys and so know KW and the living situation there pretty well. I write on this forum to help people asking questions, to give them a realistic view of where they want to live/vacation. I have no vested interest in telling people anything but the truth so they can have a good experience if they come. But it is true that some people in the Keys resent outsiders. That is probably true of any small town, especially a resort town. I am not one - I prefer diversity here, so the more different people who move here the better.

It is not about assuming your kid will do anything. I have taught thousands of kids during my life, and also work with kids who have ended up in the system or who are at-risk, including here in the Keys. I have thus been involved with kids from little ones all the way through teaching high school and teaching university students, and my concerns only stem from those many years of experience. I have seen it happen to tons of kids before, including here, and they are great kids, kids who have done all the right things and made all the right decisions previously. Being a teenager is tough, and with all the changes in hormones, and new experiences of growing up, plus moving and having to make all new friends in a new climate right before graduating is really stressful - it would be for anyone. It's not like 100% guarantee a kid that goes through that will suddenly turn to sex or drinking or drugs as comfort, but it's a reality that a high percentage of them do - and at that age, before their brain is fully developed, they are more prone to making big mistakes than an adult, in their attempt to cope with stress. Consider that a high percentage of kids who go to college do the same thing: they're thrown into a new environment, often with a new climate, don't know anybody, and have a lot of stress to manage new academic expectations and fit in socially. They're surrounded by a party environment, so many turn to drinking and drugs and sex as a way to fit in, and cope with stress. Putting a kid who is even younger in that situation just makes the risk a bit higher that they will do the wrong thing with temptation.

I only say this based on an impersonal reality of child development and psychology, not related in any way to a judgment of your kid or yourself, neither of whom I have ever met. I have seen a lot of parents move here with no plan, focused on their own enjoyment, and not considering how the move affects their kids. And then I have worked with the aftermath of that decision on the kids. Sure, it's a strain on the county. But I'm way more concerned about those kids, and how they are feeling. So I simply mentioned it to be sure you had a chance to think about that possibility before you actually moved. That's what this forum is for, to let people know what they're likely getting into before they take the plunge.

There is no one on Earth who would recommend Key West as an ideal environment for high school teenagers, especially those moving from a totally different state. There is nothing unusual about me acknowledging that fact. Your kid might do well, even in circumstances that are not ideal. But it's not my job to know that, it's yours. I write this not just for you, but for the other people who will be reading this thread who will be considering the same decision. Every family is different. The majority of those families should definitely not move to Key West, because they will struggle a lot more than they expect, and their kids will struggle even more so. All of the Keys would be hard, because of our economic and housing problems, but any of the other ones further North, closer to where I live, would be better than Key West or Stock Island for young impressionable children who need lots of activities and social opportunities to keep them occupied in positive ways.

You can take or leave that advice. But I am telling you because that is the point of this forum, and it is the responsible thing to do for me to tell what I know of what happens to people here. I could encourage you to bring your money down here and add more women and children to the environment here, which I personally would love because everyone here is outnumbered by older white men (I assumed you were female, but now I realize I don't actually remember you mentioning it), but it would be selfish for me to do so. The only right thing is to tell the truth that most people who move here don't end up happy here, and the kids especially tend to get real problems, especially in KW.

Also, in case this is relevant to you, the dating scene in the Keys is considered terrible. A lot of single people move out even if they could afford it, because that aspect is just too hard for them. That too of course is not going to be true for 100% of people, but it seems to be true for about 90% - pickings are slim here, both for decent romantic partners (of any sexual orientation, although all are represented in KW to some extent), and for good friends. A lot of people in Key West write online in places like craigslist how lonely they are, and I hear it daily from the people I know here. I have been lucky to meet lots of very kind people, but they are all 20-30 years older than I am, and many of them only live in the Keys part-time, which is part of life here that half of the population is seasonal. Sometimes I'd like to hang with someone my own age, but the few who live here are Conchs, and without saying too much to offend my neighbors... the people I have met my age who grew up here all drink themselves into oblivion at every social occasion, and are generally rather hard, superficial people who haven't really left and who don't seem to have a lot of varied interests to talk about outside of fish, boats, and beer - or town gossip, which is PLENTIFUL. I knew before I came that most people here were male and in their late 40s-60s though, so it wasn't a surprise. I have to make a lot of calls on the phone to my friends, or brave the long round trip up to Miami to see some of those who live there, just to catch up on what is happening in the current world of 20s-30s. Everything here is about 20 years behind, in terms of technology, trends, all that stuff. Slow internet. 90s fashions. Very little organic produce or really decent produce of any kind. Very few vegetarian options. Plenty of water sports, and biking, but otherwise very little emphasis on health as a priority. The Keys are just starting to hear about yoga. It's just sort of like blasting back to 1993. And in the Upper Keys, you can't get any radio stations other than Merengue, Country, or Oldies and 1970s rock.

I still love it here. But I knew what I was getting into, and I prepared.

Last edited by StarfishKey; 05-23-2015 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 05-26-2015, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Asheville, NC
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Originally Posted by StarfishKey View Post
Obviously, you can do what you want. But I URGE you not to make this move before your son has graduated. Key West is an absolutely terrible environment for someone underage. It is meant as an adult getaway, and your son will be surrounded by adults who are engaged in irresponsible abuse of alcohol, drugs, and sex. The island is highly isolated, and full of a much higher percentage of people who have mental illness or personal problems than most places, as it is seen as an "escape" location. There are not as many kids there, so your son will be very limited socially. Local kids in the Keys have social issues aside from high drug and alcohol use, including a heavy bent on who was born a Conch and who is an outsider, who has money and who does not (it is a resort island after all, so this is bound to exacerbate economic and also racial tensions), and local kids are also used to the idea of having children at a young age out of school and not really being very academically or professionally ambitious - they are used to the status quo of previous generations. If you want him to go to college, there is not much in Key West to encourage him to strive for that kind of life.

Key West is fine, for what it is. But it is absolutely the least family-friendly place in the Keys, and overall the Keys are not terribly family-friendly to begin with for people who don't have a lot of money. Any other island other than Key West and Stock Island would be a better choice for your family. Stock Island is where most people end up living, because so few can afford Key West, and it is rampant with drugs, drunken violence, and crime.

The vast majority of people who move here find that they cannot get a place because they do not have sufficient money or local references to secure an apartment (and there are very few legal apartments to rent - far fewer than there are people who want them), and then they end up crashing on dangerous people's couches or otherwise begging for housing because they can't get sufficient local employment to afford the cost of living here. I see the stories posted every week on local forums, on craigslist, and just from knowing people here... it is startlingly common. Unless you already have a job lined up, how do you plan to support your son on $10/hr at 3 different part-time jobs totally only 34hrs/wk with no benefits, with a moldy closet single bedroom rental costing $1100/mo? Do you realize that Monroe County has the most expensive govt. marketplace health insurance in all of Florida, costing a minimum of $370/mo for an absolutely bottom of the barrel cover-virtually-nothing plan? And that if you don't buy that insurance, you get a very heavy tax fine every year? Unless you are independently wealthy, or have a job lined up with the military or a friend you have here, you are not going to be able to afford it, and your son is going to struggle greatly.

The Keys are great, but only for people who have done years of research and have large savings or other guaranteed funds to be able to make it. Kids deserve better than to be moved here where they know no one and will be treated like an outcast at school, where there is nothing to do among the teenage age group to be cool but drink and get in trouble (especially if you don't have the money to own a boat, and dive or fishing equipment, plus a house with a canal or marina rental for water access), just a few years before graduation.

It would be so much better, if you must move at all, to move to a place that has a lot of families and diverse kids for him to get to know, a lot of different kinds of things to do, a place that is not totally isolated and prone to frequent seasonal flooding, a place where all the typical teenage jobs are not already taken up by desperate alcoholic adults scraping by to make rent for one more month, a place that is more academically minded and has a lot of adults for him to look up to rather than swarms of people stumbling out of bars and speeding recklessly past on motorcycles with no helmet, shirts, or shoes...

That kind of place can be exciting and fun for an adult who is old enough to drink, and to know right from wrong (in theory). But it is not a place that nearly any adult makes it in for long. Local life is totally different from vacation life. Very few people make it past living here a year or two before they are forced to move out, broke, and with more problems than they came with.

If you decide to move to the Keys despite all of these truths I am telling you, please move to ANY Key besides KW or Stock Island. Big Pine, Marathon, and Key Largo all have somewhat large populations and more family-friendly environments, plus more affordable (MORE, not actually "affordable") housing. It is very unlikely that ANY of the Keys would make you as happy as a seaside town anywhere up and down the East or West coast of Florida's mainland - and virtually any of those other towns would have more resources, SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper shopping with far more options, way better produce (the Keys cannot easily grow almost any local fruits and vegetables because of the high PH coral soil), and would be 20 times cheaper.

Miami's environment and public schools are by and large very dangerous, and the cost of living there is also very expensive compared to typical pay, so I wouldn't recommend that either. Anywhere outside of SFL is generally going to be a better choice, unless you happen to have a ton of savings.

Clearly I am not knocking the Keys, as I myself chose to live here. But I don't think I will choose to have children here in the schools past a young age. Deliberately moving a teenage kid to a party town where they know no one is a recipe for disaster. Very very few adults even actually like the daily, isolated life that the real Keys offer. It is mostly working 3 crummy jobs round the clock - especially on weekends and holidays because you're serving a tourist economy, almost never getting to see the water, and dealing with small town life and the problems that come with a lot of alcohol and drug abuse. Sure, it's beautiful. But if you can't afford it, it's not very much fun, and I have seen the environment here tear many families apart due to struggles with poverty and excessive alcohol.

Please rethink this plan. If you do come, it would be so much nicer for your graduated son to visit you in the Keys from college, and for you not to have to worry about how much your great struggle in trying to find steady employment and housing is going to negatively affect him and his ability to graduate high school.
As a Key West local with a wife and small child (living on Key West proper) I feel like I should jump in here in its defense. Yes, we live in a vacation town and life down here does revolve heavily around that industry. Once you get a few blocks off Duval St though that becomes much, much less of a presence. To say that you'll be "surrounded by alcohol, drugs and sex" is completely inaccurate. You can be if you choose to do so but as a whole we've found life down here to be very family friendly and there are plenty of kids of all ages on the island. Our daughter is not quite two though and I do constantly hear teens complaining that there is absolutely nothing to do down here unless you are into water activities or sports, mainly baseball. I can absolutely see that being the case so you may want to consider that more so than we had to.

Regarding the cost of living, the above quote is pretty much accurate. Most apartments that are listed are rented within hours and most of the good stuff doesn't even get listed, you just hear about it from a friend. We are or were recently the 5th most expensive rental market in the country (NYC Metro was #6 to give you an idea). You will pay an exorbitant amount in rent for a small place that you might consider barely livable if it were in your current city. If you have pets forget about it, no one will accept them in a rental because they don't have to. There is already a line of people without pets waiting to rent the place. You'll be hard pressed to find a 2 BR on KW for under $2300/mo and You'll need first, last and security (equal to one months rent) to move in anywhere. As for Stock Island, it's gotten better but yeah, you don't really want to live there, at least not south of US1. The KW Golf Club is on North Stock Island and is nice. What little crime we do have usually involves drugs and usually on Stock Rock. There are options a few Keys up (Big Coppitt, Rockland, Geiger) that are cheaper, larger and maybe even on the water but realize that no matter what the realtor/landlord tells you, that 10-15 mile drive to KW will almost always take 30 minutes. At the height of season, maybe an hour and if there's a wreck on US1 it could be 3-6+ hours.

Costs for most other things are pretty comparable to the mainland of FL, maybe 10% more for stuff like gas and some groceries. Other stuff we've found to be cheaper. There is no "shopping" in the sense that you are used to though so if that's a big thing you should be prepared. We have a crappy Kmart and a mediocre Sears. TJ Maxx just opened a store down here last weekend and the excitement around the Island was tangible.

Health insurance through the marketplace (hope you weren't expecting a job that offers benefits or time off) is crazy expensive though. We are by far the most expensive county in the state due to the "unhealthy lifestyle" of many of our residents. We pay over $800/mo for our family of three for the absolute cheapest, cover nothing bronze plan. It's basically just catastrophic coverage that costs a fortune because of where we live. We are all three healthy, very active and hardly ever go to the doctor.

Regarding employment. Service industry jobs are everywhere and you can pretty much get hired and start working the same day. Unemployment in the industry is something like 0.5%. That said, spots at the best places (most tip $) are going to be harder to come by so most people do work 2-3 jobs to get by. Bartending jobs are also tough to get into and usually acquired through word of mouth or promotion from within. Jobs outside the service industry are much more scarce and generally don't pay much from what I've seen.

Overall it's a really neat place to live. The independent, free spirit down here is unlike anything I've experienced anywhere else in the country. We are very, very isolated out here and it reflects in the way everyone kind of looks out for each other. What you see on vacation is really nothing at all like what you experience living here. That said, I'm not so sure we'll be here for good. The cost of housing and insurance is just insane for a family and it is ever increasing. I'm also working so much that I don't really have any free time to enjoy the things the Islands have to offer as much as I'd like. I think in the end that is the problem down here. It's great if you are a young work hard/party all night bartender, a wealthy retiree or a driven entrepreneur. Those of us in the middle who just want the slower pace of life this place offers usually wind up working too much to actually be able to find it.
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Old 05-27-2015, 10:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Shortbus901 View Post
As a Key West local with a wife and small child (living on Key West proper) I feel like I should jump in here in its defense. Yes, we live in a vacation town and life down here does revolve heavily around that industry. Once you get a few blocks off Duval St though that becomes much, much less of a presence. To say that you'll be "surrounded by alcohol, drugs and sex" is completely inaccurate. You can be if you choose to do so but as a whole we've found life down here to be very family friendly and there are plenty of kids of all ages on the island. Our daughter is not quite two though and I do constantly hear teens complaining that there is absolutely nothing to do down here unless you are into water activities or sports, mainly baseball. I can absolutely see that being the case so you may want to consider that more so than we had to.

Regarding the cost of living, the above quote is pretty much accurate. Most apartments that are listed are rented within hours and most of the good stuff doesn't even get listed, you just hear about it from a friend. We are or were recently the 5th most expensive rental market in the country (NYC Metro was #6 to give you an idea). You will pay an exorbitant amount in rent for a small place that you might consider barely livable if it were in your current city. If you have pets forget about it, no one will accept them in a rental because they don't have to. There is already a line of people without pets waiting to rent the place. You'll be hard pressed to find a 2 BR on KW for under $2300/mo and You'll need first, last and security (equal to one months rent) to move in anywhere. As for Stock Island, it's gotten better but yeah, you don't really want to live there, at least not south of US1. The KW Golf Club is on North Stock Island and is nice. What little crime we do have usually involves drugs and usually on Stock Rock. There are options a few Keys up (Big Coppitt, Rockland, Geiger) that are cheaper, larger and maybe even on the water but realize that no matter what the realtor/landlord tells you, that 10-15 mile drive to KW will almost always take 30 minutes. At the height of season, maybe an hour and if there's a wreck on US1 it could be 3-6+ hours.

Costs for most other things are pretty comparable to the mainland of FL, maybe 10% more for stuff like gas and some groceries. Other stuff we've found to be cheaper. There is no "shopping" in the sense that you are used to though so if that's a big thing you should be prepared. We have a crappy Kmart and a mediocre Sears. TJ Maxx just opened a store down here last weekend and the excitement around the Island was tangible.

Health insurance through the marketplace (hope you weren't expecting a job that offers benefits or time off) is crazy expensive though. We are by far the most expensive county in the state due to the "unhealthy lifestyle" of many of our residents. We pay over $800/mo for our family of three for the absolute cheapest, cover nothing bronze plan. It's basically just catastrophic coverage that costs a fortune because of where we live. We are all three healthy, very active and hardly ever go to the doctor.

Regarding employment. Service industry jobs are everywhere and you can pretty much get hired and start working the same day. Unemployment in the industry is something like 0.5%. That said, spots at the best places (most tip $) are going to be harder to come by so most people do work 2-3 jobs to get by. Bartending jobs are also tough to get into and usually acquired through word of mouth or promotion from within. Jobs outside the service industry are much more scarce and generally don't pay much from what I've seen.

Overall it's a really neat place to live. The independent, free spirit down here is unlike anything I've experienced anywhere else in the country. We are very, very isolated out here and it reflects in the way everyone kind of looks out for each other. What you see on vacation is really nothing at all like what you experience living here. That said, I'm not so sure we'll be here for good. The cost of housing and insurance is just insane for a family and it is ever increasing. I'm also working so much that I don't really have any free time to enjoy the things the Islands have to offer as much as I'd like. I think in the end that is the problem down here. It's great if you are a young work hard/party all night bartender, a wealthy retiree or a driven entrepreneur. Those of us in the middle who just want the slower pace of life this place offers usually wind up working too much to actually be able to find it.
Awesome to have a local from KW to be able to share!

Anyone can avoid the seedy side of life if they're really driven to. I myself don't drink or fish at all, and yet I've managed to make a home here despite the Keys being the capital of drinking and fishing! But the majority of teenagers with nothing to do, and surrounded by peers who are drinking, trying drugs, and having sex... well, what do you think they're going to do? I chose to live a very straight life as a teenager, because my career was more important to me - but the majority of teenagers don't make the same choices I did. And KW has more of that available than many other places around the country, with a bit less variety of sober things to do than many places, and fewer local options for career and academic opportunities. My experience in the Upper Keys has been too that the typical teenage jobs that keep one busy on the mainland, are not available to local teens because they are all picked over by the adults. Do you see that in KW, or are there enough minimum wage jobs to go around for adults AND teens?

From what I have seen, a teenager's life here has little supervision because the adults are always working 2 or 3 jobs and rarely home. They have no job because all of the ones they might be qualified for are filled by adults desperate for more work to pay for rent and beer. They don't have as many friends their age as on the mainland to hang out with, and several of their local friend's parents are often drunk, stoned, or on some type of drugs. So they have limited social opportunities compared with some places, because there just are not as many families who choose to, or can afford to live here. Most are bored out of their minds with the fish and the boating, because they've seen it their whole lives and it's not special to them. They don't know a lot of people who have actual careers, so much as unskilled jobs, and they don't know much about things like internships and prestigious colleges. A lot of other local kids settle down and have a family and a local low-paying job by 22. And they are surrounded by temptations. So... most teenagers in the Keys act out on their boredom, don't have the ability to build up activity resumes that truly impress colleges around the country, and so have limited opportunities to do much differently from their peers as adults. Many then get priced out of their ability to live in their own hometown because they never had the big career and the competitive college degree, and are forced to move off the islands away from their families, or to live in their parents' house until they're 30. The tension then between the families because the young adults don't have enough privacy or financial independence causes them to get angry and drink more. It's not all bleak like that, but I hear this same story over and over again, and it certainly is true of the Upper Keys. Key West is even MORE isolated than we are up here. I wouldn't choose to have kids growing up here long-term unless I could afford to take them off the islands frequently to see the rest of the mainland world (and not just Miami!).

There was a recent incident at a Key Largo school which made the local paper. A teacher of first graders was found so drunk that she was lying on the floor in her classroom, with the 1st graders all running amok. Sure, the schools here have an 'A' rating, but this is not the first local scandal in the schools here recently. [I have taught in schools in other states, and an "A" rating in Florida is NOT the same as an "A" rating in some other states in the country, anyway. Schools in FL operate at a much lower level than what I am used to, because the FL state standards are different. Kids here learn things often a full year or two later than is taught in schools in states in the NE.] The issue is how Keys residents responded. The woman was not fired, but continued to stay in the school with her same pay, and chose herself to take a desk job for the remainder of the year - the administration took no action against her at all, even though a breathalyzer showed she was way above the legal limit, and she had been drinking a bottle of wine IN her classroom while the kids were there. That's obviously not the first time she was drinking in school, just the first time she got caught because she was drunk off her @$!. She also did not get any criminal action against her, probably because she is local and locals are subject to different laws than people who are recent residents. The community all defended her choice, and wanted her to stay. Locals commented on public forums such things as "My teacher [at a Keys local high school] was always drunk, and when he would step out I would go into his desk and drink from the flask he kept in there. Parents are often drunk when taking care of their kids. I don't see what the big deal is! All 18 kids turned out ok, there was no emergency. It's not like anyone got hurt." And others wrote "Who among us can cast the first stone?"

I question the adult supervision of kids here, given that many adults who move here don't always have the best common sense anyway. I visited a local elementary school recently and saw 2nd graders putting on a dance show which they had worked about a month to prepare with their teachers. They did the show to a very sexual song on the radio that should really have an 'R' rating for the lyrics. The kids were all singing along (hopefully unaware of what a lot of it actually meant), and gyrating in stripper fashion to the song as their "dance." I don't mean standard hip-hop moves, I man "stripper pole." The teachers looked on at what they had helped choreograph, and clapped. When I am in schools or aftercare programs here, I often see kids unattended. I see them climbing up on walls of unsteady crates alone in hallways, and I see daycare toddlers left to run through parking lots with no adults around. I see this kind of thing frequently, but there's no one to report some of it to, because so many of the supervisors, and even local law enforcement, don't think this is wrong. Even when adults are around, I see them screaming at the kids in an unnecessarily terrifying manner, or leading them in what I think are questionable age-inappropriate activities with little academic value. I found that many local programs for at-risk kids here do not require background checks, which utterly shocked me! We recently had a Tavernier kids' shelter supervisor who actually put kids who had run away from the shelter, whom he himself was supposed to be in charge of, into prostitution in Miami and made money off of trafficking them. Once again, there were locals who defended him. A local public summer program no longer has the space to work indoors, so this year they will have the kids running out in the intense summer heat all day long, exposed to the sun and without shelter from the storms or the mosquitoes and constant grueling humidity, for about 8 hours a day. The counselors are being paid $10 an hour, so I'm sure they're of a high quality... But some of these kids were rescued from parents who had them living in tents under a local bridge, so I guess by comparison, this will seem good to them because at least they have access to some water?

I am just upset I guess because I have had access to hundreds of bad cases of child care here in just the past year, and it gets to me. I believe Keys kids deserve a lot better.

The Keys were also recently named as the #1 county in Florida with the highest percentage of binge drinkers by an American Journal of Public Health study. We have frequent DUI accidents, and a wealth of people who move here specifically to be homeless and drunk or high all day. The hard life people live here is a major reason our govt. health insurance is the most expensive in all of Florida. There is no denying we have a problem here. So, these are the kinds of things I would take into consideration if I had a kid and wanted them to grow up during their teen years here. It's something an adult may be able to handle better than a young impressionable mind.

I love the Keys. I choose to live here, and I hope I can stay for a long time. But I am unsure when I do have kids if I would stay here past when they are 8 or 9 years old. Kids are most vulnerable during puberty, and I wouldn't want to yank a kid out of the only place they've ever known later when they're a teenager if I could help it, so it is something I would be thinking about well beforehand. There are kids who grow up here who turn out fine. But, from what I see a lot are not what I consider "fine." I don't consider stealing your teacher's desk liquor while they leave the class unattended, and gorowing up to think it's ok to be drunk all the time while raising your own kids "fine." Plus, I'm lucky to be able to work from home a lot, but if that ever changed and I had to suddenly work out there round the clock, I would not like that I'm rarely home to see my kid. To me, it would not be worth living here. I would want to see them more than one hour on weekend days and holidays in between my 2 or 3 service job shifts (given that most of these jobs need you to work nights, weekends, and holidays - the only times kids are both awake and off of school).

I hope people who are thinking about moving to the Keys with kids will consider this stuff carefully, and whether their individual kid can handle all that living here might entail for them. It's different being a 13 or 16-yr-old here, than it is being 35 or 47.
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Old 06-01-2015, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Asheville, NC
31 posts, read 109,643 times
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The Upper Keys are quite a bit different than Key West. I do hear about crazy stuff like that happening in Marathon and Key Largo occasionally but very rarely if ever hear of it in Key West. I can't imagine an incident like the teacher you mentioned would be tolerated down here. We have a bit more of a transient population with the Naval Air Station so while the locals (Conchs and the recently moved) do get some breaks it only goes so far.

We have quite a bit more to do on land down here than some of the upper Keys despite being more isolated from the mainland. More service jobs (baggers, cashiers...etc) that I see probably equal amounts of adults vs teens filling and more sports. I've heard that if the kids aren't into arts, the natural environment/water activities or sports by a certain age you should probably get them out of here because they are much more likely to get into drugs. That said, all of the teens I have seen about the island have been nothing but respectful. Same goes for the homeless population for the most part. Some will occasionally fight amongst themselves but most just give a polite hello, how are you when we pass. The KWPD is pretty strict in their enforcement of any person being a nuisance.

We haven't experienced anything like what you mentioned with families being absent and my wife is heavily involved with local kids activities and knows many of the local parents. all that we have met seem to be very caring and love being involved in their kids lives. Obviously there will always be bad with the good but we haven't seen it. Again, the NAS presence could play a part too. As I said, our daughter is not quite two so a lot of the issues you might face with a teen are not things we really took into consideration before moving. If she had been in her teens we most likely would not have made the move for many of the reasons you mentioned.

We moved down because of a terrific job opportunity for me that pays more than I could hope to make anywhere else doing the same thing. It was also enough to allow her to stay home with the little one which we both believe is important at this age. I knew I'd be working a lot but in the end the positives outweigh the negatives (long commute up there meant neither of us had any free time). Besides that, we've always wanted to move down here so we gave it a shot. No regrets at all despite the frustrations. It will be a very tough place to leave if we ever do because there really is nowhere else like it. We don't have any crime to speak of except for the rampant bike theft issue and the sense of community is very strong down here. It's not for everyone but it suits us pretty well for now.
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Old 03-13-2016, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Meredith NH
1,563 posts, read 2,857,969 times
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If I were going to KW with the intention of living and finding employment I would not hesitate to join the bum community.
In most urban cities many bums are violent and threatening.....not so in KW
KW bums are the most colorful and creative of all bums and they know how to make some cash !
For example,one bum that used to hang at Mallory Sq trained some feral cats to sit in a row with a sign that said "Please help....feeding homeless island cats" He had a tip jat the size of a catering bowl and he had to empty it every half hour or so.People were dumping in 1's,5's and even $10 bills.Guy was making a fortune.
Another dressed his dog with shades,a doo-rag and had a sign that said "Homeless,all one human family,please help".He,too was doing very well.
Another enterprising young bum put out a sign that said "Need money for Weed"....people were cracking up and dumping money is his bowl.
They their belongings strapped to their bikes, sleep on the beach,go to a shelter if it rains and use public facilities if they need a shower....not a bad life.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:47 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,875,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samiamnh View Post
....not a bad life.
They also die a lot earlier from disease or injuries, tend to have expensive and physically devastating addiction problems, have a lot of skin cancer, spend much of their lives being chased off or threatened/injured by the cops, and usually are estranged from family and pretty isolated by the end of their lives. So it's all relative what one considers "not a bad life."

Agency says 78 homeless people in the Keys died this year, up 44.4 percent from last year | News | KeysNet

Violence against homeless and perceived-homeless by police in the Keys is high. There are many instances which are easy to look up, and have been posted in other threads here, of Keys cops tasing people or doing things that end up resulting in deaths. They are a lot less careful, and generally more violent, when they perceive the person they are dealing with to be homeless. There are a ton of anti-homeless laws in Monroe County, such that nearly everything one does as a homeless person is illegal - from parking on the street long-term in a vehicle, to public exposure/urination, to loitering, trespassing, open container, etc. etc. Take a look at the police blotter for Monroe County, you'll see a large percentage of the arrests every week are homeless people. Moreover, there is a new rise in heroin use among homeless people in the Keys. A large percentage of them are convicted sex offenders. So you have to consider who you're sleeping out in the open air near - not always safe people. There is a lot of temptation to drink yourself to death out there. Liver disease is crazy high among the population, from drugs, alcohol, stress, unhealthy food, malnutrition, and other factors.

For most, actually living homeless day to day in the Keys is stressful and involves a lot of harassment. Actual long-term homeless people don't really find it to be fun. And the shelter space is limited and often full, with a lot of complaints by the local homeless of theft, bribes, human trafficking, and other concerns. Being homeless makes one very vulnerable, and Key West/Stock Island especially is the kind of place that takes advantage of vulnerable people.

It's a myth that being homeless in a tropical climate is a romantic, easy, happy life. People who have actually BEEN homeless, like myself, and who work directly with these populations (also like myself), can tell you otherwise. Not to mention being out on the street or in the mosquito-filled mangroves when a tropical storm or hurricane hits, and having no money for bus fare out of the next few counties.

Note that the vast majority of the people you are referring to are not actually homeless - they are people who choose to live a bum lifestyle facade in public and live in a party house with 5 druggie/alcoholic roommates, and spend their days sitting on a corner collecting change to afford rent. It's actually not bumming, it's called living in an apartment with a regular job. If they don't get up and make their "busking" change, they miss their rent and their roommates kick them out. (Then they post on craigslist begging for a free ride out of the Keys to their home town, which is a very common post to make in the Keys.) They know how to perform for an audience, and lie to say they're homeless or whatever they think will get them some extra cash, then they go to their 2nd job busing tables or renting kayaks in the heat or whatever with the extra drinking/rent money in their pocket. If you know these people for real, you'll find out that for most people in the Keys who have a regular "bumming" gig and don't look too uncomfortable/smelly, that's how they're really doing it. They're not dumb. They're actors. And tourists and new residents are often dumb enough to fall for it.
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