Is it REALLY worth it? (Kendall: environment, upkeep, apartments)

[BrowardResident]

There will always be people that are willing to make sacrifices just to live here. I honestly don't see the home prices dropping to what they were 10 yrs. ago. Whatever way we look at it, S. FL has reached build-out. There is no more land to build on.

Our state is undergoing massive changes, not positive ones. Many people are hurting. I'm not sure what's going to happen.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by BrowardResident

There will always be people that are willing to make sacrifices just to live here. I honestly don't see the home prices dropping to what they were 10 yrs. ago. Whatever way we look at it, S. FL has reached build-out. There is no more land to build on.

Our state is undergoing massive changes, not positive ones. Many people are hurting. I'm not sure what's going to happen.

Only Broward has reached buildout, with the only empty developable land left in Miramar. Dade has massive areas to the south to build on, and Palm Beach has TONS to land to build west. Then again, if they built a 595 style East-West Road, I guess you would have Broward in PBC, and I guess Broward would be Dade, and Dade would be....

I only can think of 2 scenarios for Broward. It will either lose population due to aging/expense/declining quality of life/other factors or all of the mentioned, or start to become the central core of South Florida due to its location in the middle, and growth will occur upwards rather than out. I think the former is more likely. Or it will lose Americans, but continue on a pattern of slow growth due to immigration, and start to resemble Miami north of the 836.

[JimKing]

Originally Posted by BrowardResident

There will always be people that are willing to make sacrifices just to live here. I honestly don't see the home prices dropping to what they were 10 yrs. ago. Whatever way we look at it, S. FL has reached build-out. There is no more land to build on.

Our state is undergoing massive changes, not positive ones. Many people are hurting. I'm not sure what's going to happen.

Prices will drop to or below where they were 10 years ago....not on all housing but on certain types of housing. Condos in Broward and Miami are going to drop like rocks. 3-5 brdroom single family homes that ran up to $400-800000 over the last 10 years, will also drop back down to 10 year ago pricing.

The target audience for these properties is spent out and in debt out their ears. They are also faced with higher taxes, food costs, energy costs, insurance, etc.

But this drop will take years to occur.

[BrowardResident]

Originally Posted by fort lauderdale

Only Broward has reached buildout, with the only empty developable land left in Miramar. Dade has massive areas to the south to build on, and Palm Beach has TONS to land to build west.

I knew that PBC still has land to build on. I didn't know that MDC has land to develop. I can't imagine what traffic will be like in MD when it's all developed. It's a nightmare right now!

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by BrowardResident

I knew that PBC still has land to build on. I didn't know that MDC has land to develop. I can't imagine what traffic will be like in MD when it's all developed. It's a nightmare right now!

If they knew how to plan, they would build another north-south roadway through South Dade, and let them build more housing/businesses/etc. But South Dade around the redlands has tons of land. Only problem with that is that is the only tropical agricultural area in the U.S....

[tallrick]

Originally Posted by bale002

Tallrick,

I don't know the microeconomics of your business, but my impression is that if you want to expand it, you may have to leave southern Florida.

As some may know, running a successful small business can provide satisfactions - even in moral terms - that are greater than pleasant temperatures and the ocean.

You know full well that the cost structure, especially in terms of distribution if that is important to your business, is more favorable in certain regions of states ranging from Georgia to Texas and as far north as Tennessee. If you have a certain amount of employees and/or invest a certain amount, in some cases you can also negotiate business tax breaks for a certain number of years.

Face it, unless real estate prices in certain regions of Florida come off another 30%-40% within the next two years, the current cost profile will be permanent and on an upward path.

Again, if expanding your business is your priority (or you may have a mix of priorities) you must carefully investigate your alternatives within this time horizon and decide, before you are too old and/or your circumstances change and it becomes increasingly difficult to make a move.

You know, "getting in on the ground floor" in another southeastern state may be a good move because what has happened in Florida in the past five years or so may happen in the rest of the southeast region over the next 10-20.

In any case, I wish you the best!

This is my feeling as well. There's just no way to compete in a global market with the expenses of South Florida dragging you down. I am in business with a friend and even he is thinking of moving. Whether I expand the current business or start over, Florida looks less and less like a place to do business. Rent is rising and already ridiculous, good employees are getting harder to find, and the transportation system is a failure.

Alabama is at the top of my list, and selling out my properties here could send a huge chunk of cash to start a new life. Don't want to go, but the economic benefits are just too important to ignore.

[121804]

Originally Posted by tallrick

Just a thought here, if the "new reality" of Florida is that the average worker earning a median wage can no longer afford the median home, is it really worth wasting your life struggling? Why live in some cramped condo with no hope of moving up instead of going somewhere a little colder and have a HOUSE or live in a city where you pay less of your income as rent, and have extra money to visit the tropical destination of your choice? What is the advantage of Florida anyway?

We are surviving just fine on a income below $100k & I stay at home. We are here due to job circumstances but are thankfully in the process of preparing to leave FL to return to my home state of OH. For us, it is the better place to live for our personal reasons. We will be in NE OH where we will pay in the area of $179k for a 3/2/2 w/ a basement & w/ an average sq footage of 1600-1800 [most are also 2 floors; I am sick of Florida ranch style homes]. Mind you, it will not be a new home [average age in that price range in a good area is circa 1950-1960] & property taxes in OH are semi-annual. These can range from $1800 a half to $800 a half, depending on where one lives. We are looking at about $1500 every 6 months. There are also state income tax & regional income taxes to pay. HOI is about $500 for the year.

Basics such as cable, phone, electric are the same as here in FL. Food at the grocery store is cheaper in OH b/c they are gouging the retirees here in FL b/c they can.

We will live the same lifestyle in OH as in FL with maybe a little more left after bills.

But, this is so not the place for us & we cannot wait to be back to what where we are from & to raise our son there. The school systems in that area are far, far, far beyond better than FL & there is SO much more to do in that area of OH for young families than anywhere here in SW FL.

Matter of choice & need. We won't be living like millionaires in OH, but we will be near family & friends. Also, we cannot wait for the 4 seasons again. I miss fall & will take winter just to see spring. It is not worth it to us to stay here any longer than we need to. I think people can live just fine on a fixed budget if they want to & find a home that they can afford. There are a gizillion homes for sale in Port Charlotte/Punta Gorda that are under $200k & more than move-in ready. But,there are also a gillizion condos for rent that are going for good rates.

[PBCboy]

Originally Posted by tallrick

Just a thought here, if the "new reality" of Florida is that the average worker earning a median wage can no longer afford the median home, is it really worth wasting your life struggling? Why live in some cramped condo with no hope of moving up instead of going somewhere a little colder and have a HOUSE or live in a city where you pay less of your income as rent, and have extra money to visit the tropical destination of your choice? What is the advantage of Florida anyway?

I have lived in South Florida my whole life and may be forced to move out because of how damn expensive it is to live down here. Now to find another place to move to...

[bale002]

Originally Posted by PBCboy

I have lived in South Florida my whole life and may be forced to move out because of how damn expensive it is to live down here. Now to find another place to move to...

PBCboy, I don't know if you have your own business, profession, or salaried work, but a few weeks ago, when you seem to have been absent, on the Miami forum we went through a CNBC survey on the best states to do business and I believe that at least four of the top five were in the southeast - NC, GA, TX, and VA (I can't remember the other of the top five, maybe UT).

In some regions of these states, the job market is strong, depending on what you do, there is room to expand (though I understand traffic around Atlanta is hellish), house buy prices are relatively low, so is insurance, they are closer to agriculture, so food may be fresher and a bit less expensive, and gas is less expensive in some Gulf states, though property taxes (3% in Texas) and state income taxes (VA, NC, GA, UT) may offset some of these savings. Nonetheless, they are all probably worth looking into, and I would not prejudge Alabama either.

Northcentral Florida is also a possibility depending what you do in relation to local business conditions and job market.

In any case, good luck!

[INeedAChange]

geez, what's with the bashing of condos and apartments by people on these boards? They are a good option for some of us. If everyone lived in houses, there would be even more sprawl.

Originally Posted by tallrick

Just a thought here, if the "new reality" of Florida is that the average worker earning a median wage can no longer afford the median home, is it really worth wasting your life struggling? Why live in some cramped condo with no hope of moving up instead of going somewhere a little colder and have a HOUSE or live in a city where you pay less of your income as rent, and have extra money to visit the tropical destination of your choice? What is the advantage of Florida anyway?