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Old 05-24-2011, 03:27 PM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,462,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashbrown View Post
If you look at the schools some of the students are accepted into, CT will have a huge advantage because of is proximity to Yale, Harvard, U Penn etc. Even the brightest students from FL will attend local state schools because of the convenient location.
The top students from from most schools regardless of their state look outside of their state systems because they are offered scholarships to better schools.

The student populations of the Ivy League are international and from all over the USA. The demographic is equally distributed from around the country.

If the brightest students in Florida don't attend the university that is best suited to their educational needs regardless of where it is located, they aren't so bright after all, are they? Face it--"the brightest" are going to get scholarships to top tier schools. I'm not knocking Florida's public universities, some are very good schools. But they aren't necessarily the best schools in the country for any given discipline.
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:55 PM
 
Location: New England
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That is very good. Thanks.

But that leads to the question, does Weston teach to the SAT while ignoring other parts of education that lead to a happy, sucessful and productive member of society? Of course, one can nitpick any objective indicator of quality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Weston is one of the top rated school districts in the country with the highest average SAT scores in the state of CT. 587/596/610 http://www.westonk12-ct.org/uploaded...SAT_Scores.PDF


In Florida, the Alachua district had the highest average SAT scores in the State. 549/556/532 They lagged well behind Weston.
Alachua County students had the highest SAT scores in the state for the 3rd year | Gainesville.com

All kids take the same test. The national average is 1487. Weston's is 1793. Alachua's is 1637. The Florida state average is 1467. Not sure how much more objective "proof" you need.
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Old 05-24-2011, 04:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakesq View Post
That is very good. Thanks.

But that leads to the question, does Weston teach to the SAT while ignoring other parts of education that lead to a happy, sucessful and productive member of society? Of course, one can nitpick any objective indicator of quality.
Absolutely not. Take a look at their web site and you'll see that they make a profound effort towards producing well rounded students.
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
If the brightest students in Florida don't attend the university that is best suited to their educational needs regardless of where it is located, they aren't so bright after all, are they? Face it--"the brightest" are going to get scholarships to top tier schools. I'm not knocking Florida's public universities, some are very good schools. But they aren't necessarily the best schools in the country for any given discipline.
The brightest very rarely get academic scholarships to the elite schools for the simple reason that most elite schools do not give that type of aid. (anyone who claims to have gotten a full 'academic' scholarship to Yale isn't telling you the whole story) And the need-based financial aid process is where the decision-making process gets interesting. If the family of a highly qualified student makes less than about $60-$75K a year, then congrats, you're in a sweet spot where you'll end up leaving Harvard, Princeton having gotten essentially a full ride to the school even if you just barely squeaked through the admissions process. They've got the endowments to be very, very generous, and will meet all demonstrated financial need for the student.

But once you start getting higher up the family income ladder, the elites roll back on the need-based aid, and unless you're a special category (racial minority or there are other endowment accounts for your unique status) there is no academic aid to supplement the increasingly high amount family is expected to contribute toward tuition. The typical family income for an incoming U of Florida student is something shockingly high- very high percentage of them are in the $110K or more range.

So parent(s) in the six figure income and above level sit down with the kids, say we can send you to Brown or NYU but a) you must graduate in four years b) you'll have student loans afterwards, possibly large ones, and c) don't expect much from us beyond the basics. Or you can take your very nice and generous Bright Futures scholarship and because of the money saved, you can a) spend junior year abroad in Paris/Florence/London b) we'll kick in the first $25K toward your grad school expenses c) we'll even throw in a nice car at high school graduation or d) possibly some combination of the above.

Would you be willing to trade Brown for being able to afford to go to law school right out of undergrad? Is one year in Paris more important than four years in Wellesley? It's a more complex decision matrix than it first seems.
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Old 05-24-2011, 06:06 PM
 
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Then explain how the WASP valedictorian daughter of one of the wealthiest people I know (worth over $10M that I'm aware of) just got a full ride to an Ivy League? She actually got a full ride to one and a 75% ride to two others. She had a perfect score on one section of her SAT's, I think reading but could be wrong.

For those who are in the top 10% you are correct. For the truly elite students, there is no means test, it's very competitive to enroll those students.

Ironically she's decided to go to a (highly ranked) state school where she'll get no aid, although not in her home state, so her tuition will be much higher. (She wants to be on a certain swim team and be able to surf--at least she's well rounded.) Her father has no problem writing the check. She is getting a few scholarships based on academic achievement, but they won't cover 10% of the costs.
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Old 05-24-2011, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
7,648 posts, read 16,033,018 times
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Then she's either in a special class like Intel Talent Search finalist (where we're talking 40 students in the entire country) or similar super-powered high school academic achievement, a recruited student-athlete capable of winning or helping her team to win a national championship in her sport, (Harvard's women's hockey team has a certain rep for this even though the school allegedly doesn't offer athletic or academic scholarships) or there's some puffery going on with the parents regarding the offer they were getting from the school. (In which case, smile and nod and say 'how wonderful' because it's not worth getting into it with friends.)

The typical admit at those tier of schools isn't going to get a full ride with that kind of family income unless there's something else going on. And the baseline for typical admit at those kinds of schools is somewhere around National Merit Semifinalist, so we're closer to top 1% than top 10% to begin with. (unless you can work magic with the hockey puck, in which case, you can get away with maybe top 5%) So really, really special student, not just an ordinary valedictorian.
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Old 05-25-2011, 05:26 AM
 
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High academic achievement. She will most likely make the cut on the swim team, but she's not getting a scholarship for it. The Ivy League that offered a full scholarship was "recruiting" her, she was never really all that interested in going there.

Her father would have of course liked for her to have accepted the full ride to the Ivy League, but wants her to be happy and have a successful college experience, so he's willing to underwrite the school she's chosen to attend.
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:22 AM
 
5,507 posts, read 9,254,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
The brightest very rarely get academic scholarships to the elite schools for the simple reason that most elite schools do not give that type of aid. (anyone who claims to have gotten a full 'academic' scholarship to Yale isn't telling you the whole story) And the need-based financial aid process is where the decision-making process gets interesting. If the family of a highly qualified student makes less than about $60-$75K a year, then congrats, you're in a sweet spot where you'll end up leaving Harvard, Princeton having gotten essentially a full ride to the school even if you just barely squeaked through the admissions process. They've got the endowments to be very, very generous, and will meet all demonstrated financial need for the student.

But once you start getting higher up the family income ladder, the elites roll back on the need-based aid, and unless you're a special category (racial minority or there are other endowment accounts for your unique status) there is no academic aid to supplement the increasingly high amount family is expected to contribute toward tuition. The typical family income for an incoming U of Florida student is something shockingly high- very high percentage of them are in the $110K or more range.

So parent(s) in the six figure income and above level sit down with the kids, say we can send you to Brown or NYU but a) you must graduate in four years b) you'll have student loans afterwards, possibly large ones, and c) don't expect much from us beyond the basics. Or you can take your very nice and generous Bright Futures scholarship and because of the money saved, you can a) spend junior year abroad in Paris/Florence/London b) we'll kick in the first $25K toward your grad school expenses c) we'll even throw in a nice car at high school graduation or d) possibly some combination of the above.

Would you be willing to trade Brown for being able to afford to go to law school right out of undergrad? Is one year in Paris more important than four years in Wellesley? It's a more complex decision matrix than it first seems.
Great points.

You two are debating a pointless topic I think. The main statement that living in CT sets you up better for Ivy schools seems quite a reach. Those are national schools that recruit the top kids across the nation.

Your point of the average family example of 110k is a good one however. If that person has to supplement the cost that can get quite high at an Ivy where the alternative would be to to to UF(top 20 public) and go for free. It would all come down to a cost/benefit and really the specific major these days.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakesq View Post
Hi All,

We are considering moving from CT to FL. I keep on hearing how pupblic schools are so much better here in CT than in FL, but I can't seem to find an objective comparison/ratings between schools in CT and those in FL, or comparison/rating of schools from one state to another.

Is there anyway to get an objective comparison? I keep saying objective, because, (I don't want to get political) some ratings seem to be influenced by the teacher's unions. For instance, I remember one ratings of schools that gave school good marks based on the amount of money spent by the school, and by the number of teachers who were members of a union.

What I want to know is, how the students compare between CT and FL, specifically how they do after public school, what percentage go on to university and graduate from university and become productive successful members of society.

Or am I asking for the impossible?

I would advise talking to parents who you respect both intellectually and in terms of how they raise their children. That will give you far more insight into the educational culture than a letter grade given to each school to determine if they are "A" status or not. I have sent my kids to "A" rated schools and I was disappointed in both the lack of academic challenges for children and the lack of discipline. I ended up putting my kids in private school despite not wanting to spend the money and I couldn't be happier with the choice. The public schools, not just in Florida, across the U.S. are in serious trouble. Teachers are not respected enough nor are they paid enough and in the upper grades of elementary school the curriculum is based on teaching the test (end of year test). Budget cuts are burdening our teachers even more and assistants are not available like they used to be and many kids are stuck in a classroom of 24 kids with all varying degrees of academic skills and the poor teacher is at a loss of how to reach them all and get them to pass the end of year test. Critical thinking skills and creativity are not encouraged, what is pushed is passing a test no matter what state you live in.


Schooling is a personal choice and while my choice is to send my kids to private school, it is not an option for all parents, there are other options such as magnet or charter schools and some private schools do offer scholarships to parents in need. I think public schools should have more choices and in Florida you do have more options than other states (at least the ones we lived in) with the magnet and charters.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:56 PM
 
248 posts, read 434,045 times
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I'm from NJ, lived in FL for 5 yrs. The schools are definitely better in NJ. But if you do decide to move to FL, check out Lakewood Ranch in Bradenton. My daughter went to Lakewood Ranch High School and did fine there.
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